Especially exotic woods like Brazillian Tiger Wood and Albino Ebony!

The issue has two sides to each, each with merit. When I was 16, and a '58 Strat was new, it was all that there was, and cost [as previously determined in these pages sometime back, considering inflation], the same as an American Standard does today. That was a good piece of change for anyone of moderate means. These days, Squier and Fender build impressive entry level instruments which, from a distance are relatively indistinguishable from the best even the Custom Shop can turn out and, with a little low cost tweeking, can be modded into quite a performer. {[Note that PRS's SE line are echoes of their MIA's but cannot be mistaken for the latter.]

Even though Fenders' entry level guitars provide affordability and access to a 'real' Stratocaster, the question now becomes, does this, in reality, actually 'dilute' the extrinsic value of the higher end instruments?

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"Another day in paradise!"

+1

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"It's about sound and sound alone. Looks are irrelevant. You can have the best-looking guitar on earth, but if the sound isn't there it is nothing more than a beautiful piece of trash. The sound it makes is the soul of any guitar."

I am happy that Squiers are available, though I don't own any. I don't have a family at all, but have been in the position to buy starter guitars for children I know whose families are in no financial position these days to help start a music fascination. I have sat in my local shop several times playing Squier Strats, auditioning them for a small person's hands and reach, and I have never doubted the quality for price issue. I gave one young lady of 8 a Strat in that dark electric bluish purple for Xmas last year, and it thrilled her to death. I have two of that colour built years ago in California, and I use one of them to teach her lessons. She thinks it is so special that we both have exactly the 'same' guitar. I am of the opinion that once the hook is in the meat, the joy of music and appreciation for Fenders will be there a long time. It has been for me...

LOL, is this a rhetorical question? I dont know, they're good for kids I guess. As far as using it as a platform, with a few exceptions, its not a great one. You can pickup a used MIM for a couple hundred. They're decent student guitars though.

Here's the REAL question; Why does fender put out the Fender "Starcaster" that you find in the toy section of Best Buy? I did a setup on one for a guy I work with; it was a nightmare. I told him id have it the next day, but there was so much to do to it, it ended up taking a few (I only worked on it for an hour or two after my day job). It looked like whoever set it up at the factory thought " I wonder how bad an unplayable I can make this and still have someone buy it and not return it??

The neck you could fire arrow with, the 3 single coils were set so they were height adjusted like normal; each pickup being set higher than the previous, but it was backward with the Neck pickup the highest, and the bridge the lowest. The nut wasnt even really cut. A few strings had slots, the rest just had starter stots. The tremolo claw was made out of the cheapest piece of thin metal, scewed in with sheet rock scews (Ive seen this on a Squire once too, and old really cheap one). And worse than the condition of the claw and the size of the screws; when they scewed them into the body, one of them they scewed in at a slight angle instead of dead straight into the cavity. So as they tightened them down, it caused the claw to buckel in the middle from the pressure of the scews getiting closer to each other as they were deeper into the wood.
Obviously the tone knobs werent soldered correctly, and they used just a tiny bit of solder, an almost laughable amount.
I did eventually get it as good as it was going to be (at least the frets were level, though they needed to be polished), and he was very happy. He said it was like playing a differnet guitar, and it was, one that actually played. I remember noting, if a parent's kid wants to take up the guitar, and for some reason you dont want him to,, but you dont want to look like the bad guy; just buy them one of these. It fought you so much when you tried to play it before it was setup, I could see how some new students would just say "forget it".

I know its not really even a Fender, they just licensed their name to some other chinese manufacturer. I could tell as soon as I started taking it apart; nothing on it looked even remotely similiar to what you find on a Fender. The tremolo, though a vintage style 6 post, was not a fender, it had very different spacing, the base plate was different, and the saddles looked like a cast version of bent steel, but there was no bends, they were just blocky. The tremolo block appeared to be all but useless. It was about the size of one of the large books of matches you used to get at restaurant. Tuners, pickups, even knob coves were nothing Fender used. I dont know why they'd put their name on it.

PS; I did play a Classic Vibe Tele thinline, and I would consider purchasing one of those, for the money, its a bargain, and not a bad axe either.

I firmly believe when people get into debatesv about low cost vs "pro" level, and everything in between, emotions tend to over shadow reason
there are allot oh of mid level guitars that are excellent guitars on their own, and have potential to be greatv with some easy changes. But sometimes there are differences that most don't know about, and preclude them from being guitars that will remain playable 15 years down the road.
The first thing that comes to mind are mid range acoustics. Take for example the Epiphone master builts. These are great sounding and playing guitars. They are also built with techniques you don't find in acoustics twice the money, like the neck joint. They actually dove joint the necks, on a $500 guitar! I mean $2500 Taylors don't even do that anymore, they bolt the necks on (great for luthiers who have to do a neck reset, definitely easier than the nightmares that Guilds can be. But, the master builts are 'non serviceable' guitars. This is do to the fact that they use epoxy instead of wood glue. Meaning it doesn't matter how much stream you use, the epoxy's not going to give. So once the neck gets out of wack, its time to throw it out and getanother one. Other makers do similar things; some PRS's glue their frets in, makes for an interesting and frustrating refret. So a lot of why things cost what they do goes much deaper than just hardware and electonics. I think people would be a lot better off if they didn't make the name of the company that makes the guitars such a big deal. Seeing so many different guitats comme throug, I realized a while ago that there are companies that make copies of well known guitars like strats, teles and Les Pauls that are sometimes not only better made, but fractions of the price. I've done setups on Edwards Les Paul copies that were just hands down better than some of the gibson standards I've come across, and they cost less than a studio. This doesn't mean it mean the Squire, MIM and Epiphones are pointles off cours. I picked up an Epi Masterbuilt dreadnaught. It was $500and after they screwed up with shipping, I ended up paying $300. A solid wood guitar w/dovetailled neck for 300, who cares if it only lasts for a decade.
So buy what you want, but if you're a somewhat seasoned player, don't expect a Squire Bullet to play like a custom shop.

Oh, and if you plan on doing a build, spend the extra $20-50 for a Warmoth or All-parts guitar. Everyguitar project brought in with bodies and necks from the other manufacturers, and I'm thinking of a specific one now that I won't name, but anyone whose beeen on ebay will know the country, ennded up costing the client a couple hundred more due to extra unforseen bench time getting them to fit properly.

Because their cheap, and so are people. They look nice, and im sure they sell a ton of them.

You can buy an over-sized side-by side Frigidaire for a thousand dollars at Best Buy, or you can buy a Sub-Zero for $8000. Unless you are a professional chef or made of money, you'll probably go with the Frigidaire.

You could spend $600 on a cool electric piano at GC with a decent touch that you can learn to play on or spend $30,000 on a Steinway baby grand.

It's all a matter of degree and what you have to give up to get it. Economists call it "The Indifference Curve", to describe the decision process between one item (pretzels) and another (beer).

That same friend who says you don't play the color says "Always buy used. No matter who makes it, the value of a new guitar drops the instant you take possession of it." I've mostly followed his advice, too. Mostly.

+1

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2010 Gibson Les Paul Studio (Silverburst)
2007 Fender CD-60 (Sunburst)
G.A.S-ing for a Fender Stratocaster HSS with floyd rose

Said it better than I did!

I've gone full circle, my MIA Strats are nice guitars - I have 7 of them & I love 'em all, don't get me wrong, but I'm now completely obsessed with Squiers, ever since I lost my first MIJ Squier Strat, what an awesome guitar that was, I bought a messed up MIK Squier Strat & got it all done up & turned it into a killer, now I go for MIC Squier Strats, I'm waiting for another one to arrive next week - the much vaunted Classic vibe 60s Strat, I tremble with excitement as I wait for this much talked about Squier Strat. I get a kick out of turning these seemingly cheap guitars to sound like killers through my Marshall amps, unsuspecting people with MIA Strats run for cover when I unleash these little monsters on stage.

I've said before that I was quite surprised on playing a CV50's...the only thing wanting IMHO was the v-neck characteristic of that period. Then I'd go from there to an EMG-DG-20 upgrade for that Gilmour feel.

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we now continue with: THE THREAD THAT WOULDN'T DIE!!!!

I'm probably repeating what i already posted in my earlier response but ok...I'll bite.

Starcasters...why? Frankly, there are alot of parents that wouldn't set foot in a Music Store but will regularly go to "department" stores. The thought is to provide a starter guitar for people that are not going into dedicated MI stores.
Starter guitars are nothing new. I'm no great shakes as a player but as a player I'm not overjoyed with ANY starter guitar.....but as a beginner.....I remember feeling alot different about that on my $25 Victoria guitar. In 66, I thought that the Sears version of the 335 was awesome (amp built into the case!!! yeh!!)

Fender has offered low end--beginner guitars for a long time. The Musicmaster series. I setup a whole buncha Bullets in the early 80's that had pickguards that bent up and became uhhh ....bridges (!!-meh!) and weighed a ton----and nuts which you could cut with a butter knife. I'm not a big fan of the original imported CBS Fender Bullets.....But........but.......a whole buncha folks that started with those went on to better guitars, I'm sure.

Lastly.....whatever the guitar product is and wherever we have it made--it should play...and if it doesn't, we'll cover it (Check the warranty)
Will a Starcaster play like an American Dlx? No, it won't. But it will play.

And so.....feel free to continue the thread that wouldn't end...lol....I'm done (i hope!).
Have a great weekend, regardles of when ya read this! :O)

Cheers,
rob

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rob Schwarz
Director,Fender Customer Service
Proudly serving Fender Customers
for over 30 years

[quote="Rob Schwarz-Fender"]

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"Another day in paradise!"

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"Another day in paradise!"