problems with G string intonation

ashtone · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2011 5:51 pm

pappawookee wrote:

I've always had problems with G-strings. I just don't have the butt for them..............

(sorry...............I waited and waited for someone to say something like that and I just couldn't wait anymore.........I just couldn't help it ................snigger...ahem.....right...back to the question at hand now the purile childish humour is passed................. :oops:

)

edit due to my bad language being modified..................... :oops:

It ith becauth your thong hath been thung
or ith it becauth the thong wemains the thame

stratdude83 · **Posted:** Wed May 25, 2011 6:34 pm

pappawookee wrote:

I've always had problems with G-strings. I just don't have the butt for them..............

(sorry...............I waited and waited for someone to say something like that and I just couldn't wait anymore.........I just couldn't help it ................snigger...ahem.....right...back to the question at hand now the purile childish humour is passed................. :oops:

)

edit due to my bad language being modified..................... :oops:

didnt even think about it til you said something...i need a vacation

pappawookee · **Posted:** Thu May 26, 2011 12:11 pm

Hey, when you have a mind like mine there are SEVERAL guitar concepts and words used that make me act like Beavis and Butthead!!!!!!

I am an immature, foul mouthed child with toilet humour and smut on the brain........................and really quite proud of the fact......................... :roll:

ashtone · **Posted:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:57 pm

pappawookee wrote:

Hey, when you have a mind like mine there are SEVERAL guitar concepts and words used that make me act like Beavis and Butthead!!!!!!

I am an immature, foul mouthed child with toilet humour and smut on the brain........................and really quite proud of the fact......................... :roll:

It takes effort, focus and purpose to stay child-like, my brother. I should know; I am the youngest 57-year-old I know. My kids, now in their late 30's, have far outgrown my humor, so I am very happy to now have a 3-year-old son to amuse. I can get right down to his level in a nanosecond!

pappawookee · **Posted:** Thu May 26, 2011 6:05 pm

AMen to that!!!!!!!

Ah, a toddler.........I still remember the look of utter joy and wonder on my daughters' faces the first time I told them to 'pull my finger'...................the sheer amazement on their faces that a grown-up would teach them how to 'fart properly' is one of those kodak moments...................... :lol:

nikininja · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 4:50 am

stratdude83 wrote:

ashtone wrote:

These types of questions are difficult to answer with any authority, since we can't assess the problem in person. But I agree that it ain't the string tree.
First thing to do is be sure it is a new string before you try any kind of fix. An old string that has no elasticity left in it will sound all wonky.
You didn't mention how the bridge is set up. Is the G string saddle way out of line with the pattern of the other saddles? They should look rather balanced, like this:

Intonation is dependent on having the correct overall string length, nut to saddle. Based on your description, and if the G saddle is are adjusted to the approximate position, I would look at the nut. If it is cut incorrectly, the slot can add extra length to the string; the vibrating length is supposed to stop at the fingerboard side of the nut. But any nut slot problem is usually accompanied by a "sitar" tone on the string, and you didn't mention that. The other guy is right as well; too high at the nut means it goes sharp at the first fret. If your strings are thin and the frets are tall, a heavy touch will also bend the note sharp.
So there you have it. No answer, just a bunch of guessing, which is the best any of us can do. But if you try everything that everyone suggests, you'll probably find the issue.

ok i think now im pointing my heartache to my tuner...i knew better but i didnt want to believe that it was THAT important...but it seems after kinda tweeking the intonation and referencing your above picture things already are looking better...seems that i just need to get a higher quality tuner then the $20 korg i have...sorry to waste everyones time on here...thanks for the input

Mate ditch the tuner. When you listen to a guitar player, you don't do so with a tuner in your hand measuring notes. If they sound right, they are right... right?

What you're hearing is a absolute blackspot on the fretboard. Right near the nut. As said before by Stratdude who is 100% correct. The G# at the 1st fret is a real baddie to sort out. Having a nut slot slightly too high will only exacerbate the problem.
Also what you are hearing is the problem of the modern tempered musical scale. 3rd's are not right. Add to that the inaccuracies of a modular instrument (why tuning open strings to fretted notes rarely works). And you have a whole gammut of problems to overcome.
Get the nut slot height checked, then use your ear, not a tuner to accurately tune the guitar. You'll likely hear problems when referencing the open Emaj chord to Dmaj and Amaj. Simply because that G string shifts from sounding a maj 3rd to a octave of root then a 5th.
Not a whole lot you can do about it without driving yourself insane. Earvanna's compensated nut works ok to a degree. But doesn't solve the problem, just masks it.

ashtone · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 7:23 am

niki's right on the money. Get your guitar set up by someone who has enough experience to balance out the various problems every guitar can have. Start there, learn how to do the basic maintenance yourself, keep your instrument in good shape and you'll be fine. Every guitarist on the planet has to deal with these problems to some degree, and the more you know about how it works, the less of a problem it will be.

ashtone · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 7:31 am

Quote:

the sheer amazement on their faces that a grown-up would teach them how to 'fart properly' is one of those kodak moments........

Ahhh, yes, my warped friend, we belong to a select group of individuals who have managed to reach an advanced age without losing our appreciation for the humor our bodily functions can provide. Some call it immature; I call it a lack of a stick up your arse.

pappawookee · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 8:15 am

ashtone wrote:

I call it a lack of a stick up your arse.

I like that so much I am going to steal it from you sir................................ :lol:

ashtone · **Posted:** Fri May 27, 2011 10:10 am

pappawookee wrote:

ashtone wrote:

I call it a lack of a stick up your arse.

I like that so much I am going to steal it from you sir................................ :lol:

YES!! Glad I could contribute! My father would be proud!

stratdude83 · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2011 6:46 pm

nikininja wrote:

stratdude83 wrote:

ashtone wrote:

These types of questions are difficult to answer with any authority, since we can't assess the problem in person. But I agree that it ain't the string tree.
First thing to do is be sure it is a new string before you try any kind of fix. An old string that has no elasticity left in it will sound all wonky.
You didn't mention how the bridge is set up. Is the G string saddle way out of line with the pattern of the other saddles? They should look rather balanced, like this:

Intonation is dependent on having the correct overall string length, nut to saddle. Based on your description, and if the G saddle is are adjusted to the approximate position, I would look at the nut. If it is cut incorrectly, the slot can add extra length to the string; the vibrating length is supposed to stop at the fingerboard side of the nut. But any nut slot problem is usually accompanied by a "sitar" tone on the string, and you didn't mention that. The other guy is right as well; too high at the nut means it goes sharp at the first fret. If your strings are thin and the frets are tall, a heavy touch will also bend the note sharp.
So there you have it. No answer, just a bunch of guessing, which is the best any of us can do. But if you try everything that everyone suggests, you'll probably find the issue.

ok i think now im pointing my heartache to my tuner...i knew better but i didnt want to believe that it was THAT important...but it seems after kinda tweeking the intonation and referencing your above picture things already are looking better...seems that i just need to get a higher quality tuner then the $20 korg i have...sorry to waste everyones time on here...thanks for the input

Mate ditch the tuner. When you listen to a guitar player, you don't do so with a tuner in your hand measuring notes. If they sound right, they are right... right?

What you're hearing is a absolute blackspot on the fretboard. Right near the nut. As said before by Stratdude who is 100% correct. The G# at the 1st fret is a real baddie to sort out. Having a nut slot slightly too high will only exacerbate the problem.
Also what you are hearing is the problem of the modern tempered musical scale. 3rd's are not right. Add to that the inaccuracies of a modular instrument (why tuning open strings to fretted notes rarely works). And you have a whole gammut of problems to overcome.
Get the nut slot height checked, then use your ear, not a tuner to accurately tune the guitar. You'll likely hear problems when referencing the open Emaj chord to Dmaj and Amaj. Simply because that G string shifts from sounding a maj 3rd to a octave of root then a 5th.
Not a whole lot you can do about it without driving yourself insane. Earvanna's compensated nut works ok to a degree. But doesn't solve the problem, just masks it.

I think you nailed it...i ALWAYS tune to ear really but i think that the nut is just to high and i need to knock it down a little bit...im just scared to modify the nut because once you take it off you cant put any back on...i just figured i wouldnt have to modify it because its the CNC cut nut from Warmoth...i guess you CAN argue with technology!!

stratdude83 · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2011 6:48 pm

ashtone wrote:

niki's right on the money. Get your guitar set up by someone who has enough experience to balance out the various problems every guitar can have. Start there, learn how to do the basic maintenance yourself, keep your instrument in good shape and you'll be fine. Every guitarist on the planet has to deal with these problems to some degree, and the more you know about how it works, the less of a problem it will be.

I am familiar with nut height and such but i have the CNC cut nut from Warmoth...they must leave it a little high to compensate for different frets (jumbo, super jumbo, etc.)

nikininja · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2011 7:10 pm

Yeah of course you can argue with technology. Those clever folks at Warmoth, despite all their talent, can't 2nd guess every guitar accurately. ALL Fender instruments are fretted by hand. From the cheapest to the most drool inducing gregarious Custom Shop. Your nut slot height is wholly dependent on fret height.
Fret height is wholly dependent on how the person at the fretting station was feeling that day.
The difference of a thou can make a world of difference to some. Fender cut all their nuts to around .020" above the top of the first fret. I however can't stand that height and have to lower the treble side to .012", the D to .016" and the low E and A to .018". Or they all sound glaringly wrong to me. Yet plenty of people more exacting than I, find Fender's slot heights to be perfect.

It will cost you around £30-£50 to have the nut slots adjusted on your guitar. If you've never done it before, it's not worth doing it as a one off. One pass too many with the file will ruin a nut.

stratdude83 · **Posted:** Mon May 30, 2011 9:36 am

nikininja wrote:

Yeah of course you can argue with technology. Those clever folks at Warmoth, despite all their talent, can't 2nd guess every guitar accurately. ALL Fender instruments are fretted by hand. From the cheapest to the most drool inducing gregarious Custom Shop. Your nut slot height is wholly dependent on fret height.
Fret height is wholly dependent on how the person at the fretting station was feeling that day.
The difference of a thou can make a world of difference to some. Fender cut all their nuts to around .020" above the top of the first fret. I however can't stand that height and have to lower the treble side to .012", the D to .016" and the low E and A to .018". Or they all sound glaringly wrong to me. Yet plenty of people more exacting than I, find Fender's slot heights to be perfect.

It will cost you around £30-£50 to have the nut slots adjusted on your guitar. If you've never done it before, it's not worth doing it as a one off. One pass too many with the file will ruin a nut.

yea ive been going with a local guy here who does a nice job but he is expensive...$60 for a setup but he seems to do decent work

ashtone · **Posted:** Tue May 31, 2011 7:51 pm

[/quote] yea ive been going with a local guy here who does a nice job but he is expensive...$60 for a setup but he seems to do decent work[/quote]
I just spent $165.00 to have an independent shop tell me what was wrong with the A/C in my Honda, just so I could fix it myself. The average these days is around $95.00 an hour for an automotive technician. So I think $60.00 for a set-up (which takes about an hour) sounds okay, especially if they "do decent work".

	Page 2 of 3	[ 38 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

	Page 2 of 3	[ 38 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Andorra	EN	ES	FR
Belgium	EN	DE	FR
Croatia	EN
Czech Republic	EN
Estonia	EN
France	EN	FR
Germany	EN	DE
Italy	EN	IT
Latvia	EN
Lithuania	EN
Malta	EN
Netherlands	EN
Poland	EN
Romania	EN
Slovakia	EN
Sweden	EN
United Kingdom	EN

Austria	EN	DE
Bulgaria	EN
Cyprus	EN
Denmark	EN
Finland	EN
Greece	EN
Hungary	EN
Ireland	EN
Liechtenstein	EN	DE
Luxembourg	EN	DE	FR
Monaco	EN	FR
Norway	EN
Portugal	EN
Slovenia	EN
Spain	EN	ES
Switzerland	EN	DE	FR	IT

Mod Shop

Custom Shop

problems with G string intonation

Who is online