OK. Here it is. So now how do we go about this ?



Thanks,
Curve

The 5-way switch numbering is irrelevant. Some drawings label the positions in one direction, others label them in the opposite direction. If you can, just make a simple drawing with the switch numbered the way you want and match it to the table that you will create. Don't worry about hings like special caps. All we care about is pickup operation based on the 5-way and S-1 switch positions.

I don't know if it will help or not, but it will give us more info than we seem to have now. When you are done and we look at it, then I would suggest you take the results to your repair guy and ask him for his intrepretation of things. It would also be useful to send to Rob.

But based on the latest info you have provided, it sounds to me like a switch problem, not a pickup problem.

_________________
Bill

Wow. I just sent you my response to your earlier post.

Ok. Just go through all the indicated switch positions on that chart and indicate how your pickups (all of them) operate based on those positions and post it back. When you are done, set the switches to any position where the neck should work but doesn't and turn the passing lane switch on and off to see if it makes any difference. If I don't respond tonight, I've gone to bed (its 12:30 am here in Virginia) and will get back to you tomorrow. Have fun.

_________________
Bill

OK, as noted; There's tone in all positions (including the passing lane) except the neck and the middle when the S1 switch is not selected.

I don't know. Sketchy to me man. Everything appears nominal except for positions 4&5 when the S1 is not set to on.

Have a good evening. I'll check tomorrow about 9:30 pm your time.

Thanks,
Curve

Not sketchy at all. Let's look at what the results mean.

When the S-1 switch is off, the 5-way switch functions like the 5-way switch of any regular, non-S-1 equipped Strat. In position 5, the neck pickup should be on by itself (but it is not) and in position 4 both the neck and middle should be on in parallel (but the neck is not).

Now when the S-1 switch is engaged, in both positions 4 & 5 the neck and middle pickups should both be on, but connected in series with each other (and they are).

So what does that tell us? To me it says that there is a problem with the parallel switching/wiring between the S-1 switch and the 5-way switch. You need to have your tech trace the signal path in those two positions and determine where the break in the signal path is. I am more convinced than ever that your problem is due to the 5-way/S-1 switching setup and that there is nothing wrong with the neck pickup as operation in positions 4 & 5 with the S-1 switch engaged clearly shows.

Good luck.

_________________
Bill

Well, I'll have to take your word for it. I am fairly convinced it's probably not the pickup, for a few different reasons, including the ones we've discussed.

Anyway what the heck. I think there's more than a fair chance neither Fender or my local shop will be able to figure it out or find any real solution till I suspect I have to send it back to the factory shop for fixing. Given my experience so far, that could take a reeaallllllyyyy long time.

Thanks bluesky. I think we're done.

Curve

You don't have to take my word for it. The results of your test clearly demonstrate what the problem is. The wiring is different between the parallel pickup connection when the S-1 switch is off compared to the series connection when it is on. There is a problem in the parallel wiring. But if you say we're done, then I guess we're done. Goodbye and good luck.

_________________
Bill

BLuesky -
Hey Bill, no disrespect intended whatsoever. I am accepting your interpretation of the "findings" beacuse I don't understand the logic or that or how we proved it. Sorry, its just my lack of technical acumen on the process/ issue. I accept your analysis.

Anyway, there didn't seem anything else "to do", so "being done " seemed like where we were. As I said, no disrespect.

I stopped by the shop this evening and mentioned, I discovered this situation with the S1 switch to John, the Tech. And he said yes he knew of it and that with Fender they'd observed that. He also explained, the condition (and I may not get this right here) is that as the pickup is positioned and wired, one over the other (I have no idea what he's talking about) that there are three wires running to the pup. In the normal position (S1 off) the hot and the ground are the connection. But thats not working. The S1 switch adds another ground and when the S1 switch is on the proper connections are made and that's why things work in the S1 position. He seemed unsurprised and had this ready explanation.

Maybe we aren't done.

Thanks for your continued interest and correspondence.

Best,
Curve (Bill, also)

The N3, just like the SCNs in the link I gave you are three wire pickups: one hot, one ground, one shield. In normal use, both the shield and ground wires are grounded to the back of a pot. In the S-1 configuration, you can see in the link that both wires of the middle pickup are grounded to the back of the upper tone pot (you have to really enlarge the picture to make sense of the tangle of wires. One wire of the neck pickup is also grounded to the back of the tone pot. The other wire connects to the S-1 switch terminal 2. I would be willing to bet that the N3s are wired exactly the same.

It seems to me that there are only three possible failure modes here:

1. The internal switching of the S-1 for terminal 2 is faulty.
2. The pickup end of the wire that goes to terminal 2 is not connected within the pickup.
3. The S-1 end of the wire that should go to terminal 2 is not properly connected.

Instead of just noting the condition that you found, Fender and your tech should have traced the S-1 switch wiring to make sure all paths are working. They also should have checked the continuity of the neck pickup at each of the three solder points and compared it to the middle pickup.

I am a systems engineer dealing in the integration and test of extremely complex electronic systems. It should take a competent tech a very short amount of time to check out this circuit with or without a schematic. With the exception of the passing lane switch (which has nothing to do with S-1 switching), I feel the old American Deluxe schematic is useable in this situation.

_________________
Bill

I've discovered something else weird. As you know the Mustang 3 has a hundred presets. For whatever reason. On some of the presets. The neck pick up, actually both 4 and 5 position, seems to work pretty well/or just fine when the S1 switch is. This has me absolutely baffled. I mentioned it to the Tech today and that did open his eyes. I told him I would bring the amp and guitar by to show him the deal.


The condition is present on the SuperSonic presets, but none of the clean models. Probably fewer than 5-7 presets have what seems to be a normal response in all positions.

This has nothing to do with the operation of your guitar. Some presets will probably sound great, other will sound like crap. You should be testing using only one amp setting: Clean. All others should be ignored. Anything else is a red herring. Your tech should recognize this.

_________________
Bill

I’m updating this thread to hopefully close the book on this situation. I won’t rehash the months old issues with the shop and Fender that I dealt with. It’s worth noting Fender finally produced an N3 replacement for what was diagnosed by the shop here in Wasilla AK as a failing pickup. A month and ten days after the warranty order finally was placed by the shop for the replacement, the pup arrived and was installed by the Fender tech at the shop. It’s only two days later, but the pup is working fine and the Strat is sounding great.

I want to thank the Fender Regional Rep Mike Madlener who returned calls when I left messages on his phone and then took time to call me after I reported the pickup had arrived and was being installed. To his credit and I think Fender’s too, he said if the replacement pup didn’t fix the problem they would reengage to address what was needed to get this Strat back in full operation. He was really great and said Fender would make it right no matter what it was. We had an excellent long conversation. I do think there are some issues at Fender though.

The shop, well, sketchy is the best I can say. The Tech did his best in the end. He did chip the paint removing the pup guard and it is a concern as I can easily see it getting bigger as time goes on. Maybe there’s a way to arrest the chipping. He didn’t seem really too concerned about it.

I exchanged a few pm’s here with Rob Schwartz but I don’t think that was particularly helpful. He did make an effort to say hey, though, and ask a few questions of his people.

I’ve got my fingers crossed that this is the only fix this axe will need. To me it’s perfect in every way. I hope to have it a long time to get old with.

It doesn’t seem to be a switch problem right now, and thanks to bluesky636 for the discussion and his diagnostic. It was good to have someone knowledgeable to talk to. I hope to be around the forum for a good long time.

Curve

Hope it works out for you.

_________________
Bill