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I purchased this Strat Plus in '88, to retire an original vintage Stratocaster from road abuse. I used the Strat Plus in it's stock configuration for about 2 years, doing some studio work and playing live full time. It came with the Gold Lace Sensors, split roller nut and locking tuners. I never expected the Strat Plus to sound like my old guitar, I just wanted a new guitar that was replaceable if stolen or lost. They were both relatively light weight, but the Strat Plus was just duller-sounding. Realizing that some of the differences were due to old wood, resonant frequencies and other things which I can't "mod", there were a few things about the old guitar I could try to reproduce on the newer one. My goal was to see if I could take away the "flatter" tone of the Strat Plus, and bring it a little closer to the more open, woody, piano-like resonance of the older Strat with simple bolt-on modifications. Each mod was followed by a month of playing live, so I got used to the sound and could see what the next change would bring.
The first thing I did was remove the Lace Sensors and drop in a set of Custom Shop '50's pickups. Positive results, but minor. Bigger low end, and more "bloom" to the note; the way it opens up at the pick attack.
Next was the bridge. I got a set of repro vintage saddles, drilled and tapped new offset locations for the length screws, and narrowed them to fit the Strat Plus string spacing. At the same time, I found a steel trem block that had the same string spacing and mounting holes as the stock zinc block Fender used. I have no idea what it was made for, maybe G&L? But it fit perfectly and is the same material as the vintage block. These two steps were another positive change, and added to my satisfaction with the way the note would open up when the pick stuck the string. The tone was a bit more "woody" or open. I put the original saddles back on, and some of it went away, so I feel it is a combination of the two changes I made.
The next step was a Wilkinson Roller Nut upgrade, which is more like a traditional Fender nut in that it is narrow, and the strings don't go under a roller. This didn't do anything, so I made a traditional Fender bone nut, and again, the result was so minor I don't know if it did anything. I can see how there would be a difference in the tone of an open string, but once you fret a note, the nut isn't contributing anything. The fret becomes the nut, right?
I felt like I had achieved what I set out to do, which was improve the tone. I played the guitar this way for a long time. I added a switch in place of the middle tone control to activate the bridge pickup wherever the 5-way is. This added all 3, and neck + bridge to the choices. I also made a thin one layer pearl pickgaurd.
Well, at some point I needed to re-fret it, so while I was doing that, I put on a real '64 rosewood neck. Boy was that a big change! It sounded so much better that I left it that way, and still have it in that configuration. But while it is closer to that tone, it ain't all the way there.
So, yeah, I learned a lot about what makes a Strat sound like I want it to. The biggest thing I learned was next time I'm just going to play a bunch of them and buy the one that sounds the way I want it to sound right out of the gate. But it won't be as much fun as this was.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

Welcome and thank you for a frank and honest evaluation!

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You dig?

Welcome to the Forum! I am just wondering why, if you loved your old Strat, you retired it? It seems like all the work you went through with the Strat Plus, you could have invested new frets and such in your old one and kept the love of your life. Was it highly collectible so you did not want to play it any more? I think I would have sold the Plus, after I was done with the road work, and then fixed up the old one. Could you please explain?

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Xhefri's Guitars
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Well, I didn't sell it, I just stopped using it as my full-time player. I play it every day! It is a 1957 body and parts, and it came with a 1964 neck. I had refretted it five times, and just felt like it was going to be unplayable at some point if I kept using it as hard as I was. And I was worried about it being stolen. I also had 7 Stratocasters at this point, and had really come to the point where I felt like I could get "my sound" from lots of Strats, not just one. It was also a quest of sorts, to try and get this "uncool" (in those days) Strat Plus to sound better, using what I had learned from mixing the parts from those 7 Strats. I swapped the necks, bodies and pickgaurd/wiring assemblies; maple necks, rosewood necks, this body, that wiring. I did this once a month for about three years while i played four to five nights a week. I learned a lot, and tried to put this information into fine tuning the Strat Plus. In a nutshell, I found that of those 3 main components, the body contributes the most to the tone, the neck second, and the pickups third. This is based on the "original" style Strat, anything before, say, 1971, when all the parts interchanged just like Leo designed them to. It worked out like I thought (hoped) it would, and I learned exactly what factors make a great Stratocaster for me, no matter when it was made.
I will always treasure that first Stratocaster. It has a personal history for me, how I got it (and a Vox Clyde McCoy Wah Wah, which I still have as well) from a friend I looked up to when I was 15, in 1969. I remember seeing it when I was 13, before I even knew what it was, hanging on the wall at the music store where my mom taught piano. It was my only guitar for a long time, and every September I celebrate getting that guitar. I hope it will be passed down when I pass. I ended up selling five of the seven Strats I mentioned, but I would never sell "The First One". I can always get one that sounds great; I can't buy one that has 42 years of me in it.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

You were very lucky to own one.

I am thankful for many blessings in my life; having a new lease on life through my 3-year-old son at age 57, having a woman who loves me for who and what I am, having a relatively successful life doing what I love, and the love of friends and family I hold close to my heart. And, yes, I am lucky to have owned and played some wonderful guitars.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

Something that you might want to try........take the entire pickguard assembly off the old guitar and try it on the new one. You'll get the pickups and any small effects of the wiring transferred over.

I understand keeping your first. I have my second guitar, which was purchased by my parents in 1969. I plan to play it in the king of the blues competition.

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2002 mim Telecaster
Jimmie Vaughan Stratocaster
Mexican HSS Stratocaster
6 non-fender guitars
2 kids (not for sale)
1 wife (uh....no comment)

I did that on the MIJ 50's Stratocaster I have, but I took it off after a couple weeks because of the theft thing. It sounded great, but really no better than the Fralin's I had Lindy wind for me. Actually, I had a set from a '59 slab-board Strat that I wanted copied, and contacted everybody who made pickups in 1992. I paid for 6 different sets! I had no way of knowing whether it could even be done. I spent a lot of time on the phone, and I sent an original to everyone to use for comparison. So it took a month for the first 3 sets, and another month for the second three sets. My main request was a slightly looser wind that wouldn't be a tightly wound coil, and an RWRP middle pickup. Alnico 5 magnets, 42 gauge Formvar, match the measurable specs, all the normal stuff. Everybody said 'no problem, I know exactly what you want". Well, the only person who really did do what I wanted was Lindy Fralin. He didn't even want to see the original, he said he knew what I wanted. And he did! One of the sets, from the most renowned guy in the bunch, did not even have a RWRP middle pickup, and had Alnico 2 magnets. When I complained, he said in so many words, due to his expertise and experience, he knew more than I did about what I wanted. Well, that went over like a fart in a diver's helmet, and I won't use his stuff for refrigerator magnets.


Nice co-incidence, the 1969 connection. Every time I hear "The Summer Of '69" by Bryan Adams, it makes me think I should have written that song! the Stratocaster was actually my second guitar, but I don't really count the first one, which was a Norma. It cost me a weeks' pay as a paper boy - $30.00. It came from Hill's department store in sandusky, Ohio, where I grew up. I gave it to my younger brother, who took a power disc sander to it when he saw me refinishing guitars in the basement.

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Good luck in the competition! Can you tell me more about it?

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

I do these types of mods for people weekly. For dull sounding; starting from the bottom ($) and working my way up is always for me to start with the pots ($5 part), going from a 250K to a 500K can really open up the sound. Now that won't do anything for your primary tone, but the next thing I do you alfeady did; replace gthe block. I've done A/B comparisons with bodies and different woods and weights. With Tele's this is a dramatic change, Strats not so much. There's so little coming in direct contact with the wood; strings run through the trem with either 2 or 6 screws (even tghen the outside 2 are doing the major lifting), pickups float in a platic guard screwed @ the edges to the body. I find the neck material will have a much bigger impact on the tone than the body will.
This isn't to say it has no impact, but compared to stoptail or string through bodies with pickups mounted to the body its much less so.

I guess this is why we all chase the dragon; "results will vary". I would never try to tell you that your conclusions or hard-won knowledge are any less valid than mine. But I will stand by my experience, as I am sure you will. I think the only way to hear the subtle differences we're discussing is to be playing an instrument live, actually performing, on a regular basis, so you know what the "reference" tone is. Then when you make a change, assessing it is based on having an "intimate expectation", if you will. You know the guitar, you know what it sounds like with all the variables of different picking, strumming, effects, pickup selection, etc. I also have to put something in here about how subjective our hearing can be, because of what we expect to hear:
I was part of a band in the early '90's that recorded original music and toured to promote and support sales. One night I was driving, listening to 800 KOA out of Denver. There was a talk show on with a guy named Ton Jensen, and when he came back from the break, this tune started up. In my head I heard this awesome Strat tone, and started thinking "man, with all the time, sweat and money I spend on this crap, why can't I get THAT tone?? What is it gonna take to...." right about then I realized it was me on that guitar. I laughed pretty hard at myself, and it was an epiphany. That "awesome Strat tone" wasn't some holy-grail guitar/amp combo, it was a Strat Plus in stock form, a 3-knob 901 Tube Driver (not the "cool one"), and a Super Champ. In that one moment I learned that tone is in the ear of the beholder. So if you have found that it comes from the neck, then for you, it does. And if I think I get it from the body, I do.

I would encourage anyone trying to gain this kind of knowledge to get out and find it for themselves, through playing and experimentation. There is so much info at your fingertips these days, it is easy to find an opinion about any teeny tiny detail of your guitar you wish to know. But I'll be adamant about the fact that if all you do is read and spout, all you have is what the lawyers call "circumstantial evidence". It won't hold up in court.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

Thanks for the great read.

Cheers,
Robin

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http://www.youtube.com/robinstrower
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Whether or not you like the tone its one thing. But fact of the matter is, neck material change the tone more than body material in strats and their clones. In the same way one may prefer nickel played steel over pure nickel strings( I prefer pure nickel) the fact is that they have very different tones.
I took a set o of Paf's out of a 61 ES 335 this week. Actually one was a PAF, the other had a patent, but they were both stock. The guy put them on craigslist for $1200. AND GOT IT! Personally I think its insane. Someone is going to drop them in a newer LP or something, wanting a "vintage" sound, but then more than likely put in modern nickel plated strings, which defeats the purpous because its NOT going to sound like a vintage pickup with pingy nickel plated8. What sounds good can be debated, but what changes tone more dramatically really can't be. Not everything is sujective, some things are what they araree. . A single coil is sharper and more trebley than a hunbucker. You may like a hunbucker more, but the fact that they have destinctive tones can't be argued without ignoring facts. A lot of people want to say that what sounds "good" is all a matter of personal opinion; I don't buy that in all cases. I think you'd be hard press to find someone who likes a dull sounding guitar over one with lively resonance and clean sustain. The same way you'd have a difficult time finding someone who likes the distortion you get when you overload an input on a recording device and it clips over a natural tube distortion, or hell even an overdrive pedal for that matter.
Not EVERYTHING happens for a reason, sometimes $@!& just happens, and not everything is subjective.

Anytime we Chase a tone we hear in recordings, we're shoveling sand against the tide. Its hard to nail a recorded tone without the benefit of studio grade compression, E Q, and a great engineer. Though one trick I've learned is I actually have 2 (occasionally3 if IM using a wah to get a cello like sound). A typical 3080 type like a Fins Comp or Keeley, and an optical compressor at the very end of my effect compressors on my board. loop chain tob tighten up the whole signal(this is used sparingly)) and a MXR 10-band EQ. IM always confused by tone charts who have thousand of dollars in pedals, but don't own the one pedal that can actually aha shap their tone.

I do agree though that you will never REALLY know what your gear can sound like unless you can play it at gig levels. I've played a lot of amps, effects and guitars that didn't blow me over when I played them at living room, or even rehersal volumes. I don't want to start another pointless thread on thematter; but I really noticed the tonal improvements on the callaham replacement trem/lock over the stock when playing loud. It sounded better to me low, but sounded better to the whole band live.

I'm 57 and I've never heard that expression, "shoveling sand against the tide". I'm using that from now on...sounds like "Castles Made Of Sand".



i took the better part of a year and learned enough to be able to design my own "aha" boost/overdrive pedal back in 1991. The only reason I did it was because it pissed me off that I couldn't find what I wanted in an off-the shelf or boutique pedal. I still use that pedal as the first thing my guitar signal hits.

Your rig sounds like the kind of direction Ry Cooder went, when he used (maybe still does) a Neve or some other old analog mixing console pre-amp as his first stage. It's all good, as they say, if you gets what you wants.


That was my point. I have spent 28 years exploiting the fact that I can take my ideas out for a spin around the block every time I play. It works for me.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs

As the saying goes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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"There's an arse for every chair"

5 guitars
7 amps
4 dogs