niki why is there only one Shroud. Look at all my clips niki I have solved every mystery. Niki why does it bother you if they prove the Shroud to be real. The written word is our evidence and eyewitnesses why does proving the Shroud real one day bother you ?

Because Vinny, you're surmising it is real and the absolute burial garment of Christ without first determining that. The fact that it's impossible for a body to decompose to the degree that it could stain a blanket in three days. You seem too willing to overlook.

The fact that it is the only one, proves nothing. I'm the only one of me. Don't make me anything that special does it.

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Thank you very much vinnypop,

Yes, I will say that your work is fascinating and I am very pleased that a believer is involved in this work. I am not discounting your findings at all.

It just seems to me that the science has become the focal point of the shroud, and any efforts made on testing it are simply attempting to validate the science. Then when the science is proven flawed which it often is (ie, carbon dating) this is translated as the cloth not being real, or worse yet that fraud is involved.

Remember how the "dead sea scrolls" were said to call for a "rewrite the Bible"? Didn't happen. Now people are trying to use the shroud in the same way, to validate science, or at least try to make science seem more valid than the word. And I must say, a lot of flawed so-called "science" has been used in the testing. It is like trying to determine who killed Kennedy, there are two official versions of what happened, lots of science, both good and bunk, and yet there are still questions as to exactly what happened. Same here, for every cool thing that you discover, there will be some puke that has some other "science" to prove you findings false. And what ends up happening is that faith is placed in science, especially the bunk stuff (again, carbon dating is crap) instead of belief where it should be.

I believe in God in the same way that I believe the sun is shining, not because I can see the sun, but by it I can see all other things.

But, cool stuff nonetheless, good work.

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I respect your opinions shimalou and niki

Would any decomposing body leave such an imprint on a peice of cloth? Not trying to debate your question Niki, just wondering if you took a body, wrapped it, would it leave an imprint after x number of days/years.

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It needs atleast a couple of weeks before it start getting squishy, especialy in a dark cold cave or cellar.
Even then, it's not enough to leave that kind of staining.

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Isn't that what vinnypop is saying, the impression is supernatural, not a natural occurrence?

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Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

No the whole thing behind Vinny's findings is that it is the corpse of a man. Otherwise why make such a big thing about the toes.
What Vinny fails to realize is (and the atheists will jump on this, but I'm just too honest to ignore or keep it hidden) that if he somehow could prove that it is the imprint of Christ and that he died and had his toes ripped off, that ends Christ's divinity, thus ending any hope of salvation.
Like I said, He didn't die, he wasn't killed. He willingly gave up his life. It was his to command, at His bequest it had to obey. No man took it from him, that's for certain.

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VINNY! Where ya been? Well I guess this thread answers that question......Welcome back buddy...we missed ya!

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Hey Vin I know you do, and I likewise. Thats why this doesn't have to turn into a mass argument. Thats my main point.

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Vinny explained and I have read that the energy induced by the resurrection made an image on the cloth. Just like a film negative. That's the theory. It doesn't really matter if it's true or not, but it's amazing to encounter. Physical evidence couldn't hurt anything. It's all good.

This is the key point Niki, that the image on the shroud is an photo-negative, and not a stain.

I'm not going to say my beliefs on this at all, but just point out you are kind of arguing a point with Vinny that he isn't asserting.

His point is, it's not a stain, it is as far as known a completely unique phenomena, which would seriously point to the resurrection.

i have no idea, nor really much interest in solving this myself, but a neat read nonetheless.

Also Vinny, if your film technique really does what you say (I'm not asserting it does or it doesn't,) it might support the Theory in Physics of the 'Universe as a Hologram' (an idea that makes my head hurt trying to understand.)

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I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

I am looking at your videos but I don't know what I am supposed to be looking for. It looks less detailed to me than the negative that I've seen before.

But anyway, I have heard quite a few various explanations for the shroud but none of them explains why there's no evidence that it was actually wrapped around someone. If you, for instance, paint your whole body with some substance that will stick to cloth and wrap a shroud around it, the markings left on the cloth would be distorted by any wrinkles in the cloth and the fact that it hangs over something three dimensional.

If you look at the top of the head, for example, it should connect by a patch of distorted hair the length of the top of the head to the other side (the back of the head). Instead, the face and back of the head are not connected and they are too close to one another to have been wrapped over the top of someone's head or even just laid over someone's head with the top of the head not touching the shroud itself.

Try taking a piece of something flexible (a long strip of paper or a rag or something) and lay it on the top of your own head, letting it lay down your face and down the back of your head. Mark in some way where the top of the face ends and where the back of your skull is located. That should be approximately the distance between the top of the face and back of the head on the shroud and, there should be an impression of hair in between. There's no impression of the hair between front and back and no distortion of this area of the image, either. There's also no distortion around the sides.

It's like a map of the earth. You would get expansion of body parts at the edges where the cloth is draped over the body, but we don't see this.

For Jesus to make this image (presumably by some force of energy) he would have to be completely flat and have a flat sheet laid over him.

Any carbon dating issues aside (as, you're right, they could be inaccurate). This spatial issue is the kind of question you'd have to have an explanation for to prove that the shroud is authentic.

Twelvebar its interesting you mentioned that as several days ago I posted on ATS Above Top Secret that my filming process may have the ability to reveal hidden objects in the Heavans. The universe as a hologram. In 3D filming we film in left and right which then reveals depth on televisions and cinemas. My system does not reveal depth it converts the encoded 1s and Os into true skin tones and reveals other stuff but the principle is the same.
Niki you confuse me about when you say Jesus never died but he was killed whats the difference He died on the cross. How can the three toes ripped off tendons and laying next to His right foot cancel out His divinity please explain
Also niki the divinity of Jesus isnt just about the resurrection its about the other evidence too the miracles, walking on water, raising several people from the dead, the blind, deaf, paralysed, the fish bread, the demon possessed, the transfiguration on the mount. These proved His divinity to me, the resurrection was just the icing on the cake. The psalms prophecised something like '' hes body will not be left to see corruption ''

V the Shroud was obviously not wrapped around this person like a mummy. He was laying basically flat except for legs possibly slightly raised. From my work you must agree its not a painting yes ? So where do we stand now. I am now dealing with a concerning aspect about the feet before niki brought this up I knew it would happen. I gave the decoding secret to the world anyone can now do it. I have unloaded my burden of the feet upon the world it is not my problem. Niki in a resurrection if we realy believe it. A new creation was formed, if what I filmed is true the toes reconnected to the body. God would not allow any part of His physical body to remain on earth. Also V ponder this if you are a Christian ? Jesus ascended up in Heavan witnessed by the Apostles....so it also makes sense that at point of resurrection Hid body lifted off the rock bed table and exploded in light. This would answer the question you ask