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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:40 pm
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I keep all my MIA and MIM Fenders side by side and they get along just fine.People who automatically put down MIM fenders as being inferior or saying that a pickup change is mandatory are talking out of the wrong oriface.I have been playing both MIMs for over 10 years and I find that I can get an extremely heavy tone from my MIMs as well as my MIAs,all it takes is a little tweak of the EQ or volume.The last time I jammed(with a bunch of Les Paul users)they commented on the full tone of my SSS Strat and were really surprised when I told them it was an MIM Jimmie Vaughn,they had wrongly equated Mexican Strats with thin sound.MIM Fenders may have lower cost parts and constuction materials and methods but they are made with the same attention to detail and workmanship as MIA Fenders as it is evident from the finished product that the workers from both plants take pride in their work and what they produce.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:28 pm
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A Guitar is a Guitar, and "if it feels good... Do It!". It's got to feel right to make it a suitable guitar for me, I don't care where it's made. If you ask me, All the US made Fenders And MIM's have some Quality issues going on these days. I Still own them. I won't even Start on the Gibsons. The best guitars are Handmade. Who can afford that? :shock:


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:59 pm
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I see much made about 3 piece vs 5 piece bodies. As a person who does a lot of woodworking and carpentry work, I can say structurally, a 5 piece is going to be equal to or slightly superior to a 3 piece.

A well joined and glued joint is stronger than the surrounding wood. A joined piece of wood will almost always (90% or higher) break along a grain line and not at the glue joint and more narrow blocks are going to be less prone to warpage than wider blocks.

The thin laminate overlay does little structurally and is cosmetic but if it's a well crafted glue joint (and I'm sure these are all CNC machined perfectly flat and square) a 6 piece body will have more inherent strength than a 2 or 3 piece and definitely more than a 1 piece.

As for the glue joints impacting tone, I just don't see how it could. Some wood is going to be dull sounding and some is going to resonate well. I don't see how the number of glue joints will impact that one bit.

Just my opinion based on a lot of years working with wood.

Jeff


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:39 pm
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Hell than why not just make bodies out of glue then, if its so strong?


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:22 pm
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TexasFury wrote:
Hell than why not just make bodies out of glue then, if its so strong?


Glue isn't very tone-worthy, I'm afraid.

On a related note though, back in the late '50s or early '60s, Supro actually produced a line of electric guitars whose bodies were fabricated by a type of thermo-molded resin glass. And of course the Lucite-bodied Dan Armstrongs of the late '60s and early '70s are well-known.

Personally, I'm happy with alder or ash for my Fenders -- maple and mahogany on my Les Pauls.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:22 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
TexasFury wrote:
Hell than why not just make bodies out of glue then, if its so strong?


Glue isn't very tone-worthy, I'm afraid.



Really! Some quite respected guitars have lots of glue: The Yamaha SG of a few years back; favoured by Carlos Santana as I recall. The body was made of upteen bits of mahogany with a maple cap GLUED on!

Also lots of high end Ibanez have necks laminated out of 5 bits of timber!

True I AM a Fender fan, but I think this glue thing is a bit of a myth frankly; unless you go to the extreme of plywood!


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:55 am
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When it comes to guitar tone, there is more BS than one would find in a Kansas Stock Yard. :D

I just don't buy the notion that a 3 piece, 2 piece, 5 piece body makes a bit of difference. Plywood, yes, but we're talking blocks of solid tone wood glued together with the grain doing the same direction not layers of wood stacked one on top of another with grain alternating 90 degrees per layer which is what plywood is.

The glue joint IS stronger than the surrounding wood. The glue and wood become one it's not a barrier for vibrations.

The differences would be no more than the differences from one wood or another. If one had planks from the same tree and glued up a 3 piece and a 5 piece guitar with woode from the exact same tree, I'd challenge anyone to hear a difference in tone.

Now, if the joint is bad, too many gaps that glue is filling, or you just have dud wood in there, yes, but that's not a factor of how many pieces, it's a factor of sloppy work and and bad wood (which can happen on a 2 or 3 piece body too).

Just my not so humble opinion and one based on a lot of years doing carpentry and wood work. I've done demo work on a lot of woodworking and I've never seen a break at the glue joint where the joint was of even a reasonable quality. It will break along the grain lines alongside the joint.

But as with anything else, one should buy what makes them feel good and what they want. I have both an MIA and a MIM strat. Tone wise, with the same pups, I can't hear a difference. They are both very good guitars.

Jeff


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:33 am
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Location: Margate, South Africa
Hey Guys! ('n girls)
Down here on the southern tip of Africa, import duties and middle-men put most Fender products out of the price range of your average joe.

I was lucky enough 14 years ago to afford a MiM std strat. I had played my '79 Peavey T-60 (with EMG active humbucker pups and Kahler whammy) for many years, pro and otherwise, and the transition to the SSS pups was quite difficult and very different (for a few years).

BUT . . . the more I played the strat, the better it sounded! :shock: And the better it felt! :shock: :shock:
NOW . . . my (poor) Peavey is sulking in it's case cos whenever I'm off to a gig or jam, I grab the sexy strat! Besides cosmetic mods, the only changes are a GraphTech nut (original cracked) with GraphTech saddles.
I get such a range of tonal quality with the 5-way switch, it's awesome! The action sets up as slick as a BP product on sea water. The sexy metallic-red finish makes me weak at the knees :oops: and the quality of the finish is absolute top-shelf :P

WELL . . . what I'm trying to say, is that I have a MiM strat that is so awesome to play, and to hear, I would not change it for anything :mrgreen:
I have jammed on my friend's MiA strat (very nice too), but it's always a pleasure to get back onto mine!

. . . and, footnote: the more a guitar is played, the better it's sound develops and evolves unto itself (that's why those vintage strats sound so good) . . . so . . . Keep on jammin'


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:47 pm
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I own both MIA and MIM strats, as well as a partocaster that is a combination of both (all MIA parts except for the MIM neck) and I play all of them regularly. Are there differences? Sure. Do they all sound like strats? Absolutely! Regardless of where it's made or how much it cost, a guitar only sounds as good as you make it. It's in the person, not the gear. Anyone of us could play on SRV's or Clapton's rig and not sound like either one of them. So MIA vs. MIM -- Does it really matter? After all, they're still strats!

And one more thing -- My MIM is a '91 (that I bought brand new in '91) all stock pickups, my MIA is an '05 American Standard that I upgraded to TS pickups, and my Partocaster is an '11 with Fat Cat 50's. All have been professionally set up through out the years. When using my '69 Super, no pedals, same settings, cord... my '91 is the warmest, most sparkling, highest output one of them all...

Bud


Keep on pickin' -- what else is there?


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:47 pm
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jeffnles1 wrote:
... but if it's a well crafted glue joint, a 6 piece body will have more inherent strength than a 2 or 3 piece and definitely more than a 1 piece.


Have you ever seen any Fender with a warped body? Other than Ritchie Blackmore and Yngwie, who has broken bodies?

If I had a choice, I certainly wouldn't pick a 6 piece body over a 1 piece because the 6 piece would be inherently stronger. Those bodies all seem plenty strong enough to me.

I have an old Les Paul with a well-repaired headstock (one of the typical kinds of near-breaks) and I bet it's better than new. And I do own a couple 1 piece bodied Strats (BTW, one can buy 1 piece bodies all day from Warmoth).

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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:06 am
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Http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/m620/Oskar582/
So very true.
I purchased two previously enjoyed MIM Strats
The black one in the photos I've posted is a 2004 and the agave blue is a 2001 and they both sound and play every bit as good as a MIA Strat.
Fender wouldn't put their name on it or the iconic model Steatocaster if it weren't.

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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:16 pm
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I worked my $@! off and saved until I got a MIA Mahogany HSS strat.

My buddy plays a Squire.

He sounds much better than me on his Squire than I do on my MIA.

It's music. It breaks down all our walls and builds us higher. Whatever you've got that rocks your soul, play it without regard to status.

What could be more Rock and Roll, more Blues, than to say "f&^k status!"

Amen to the author of this post.

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Electric Guitar #1: Fender American Select Mahogany Stratocaster HSS
Electric Guitar #2: Agile Al-3110 Les Paul
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Amp: Line 6 Spider III 75 75W 1x12 Combo Amp
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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:02 am
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53magnatone wrote:
Martian wrote:
I still say that if Fender didn't let it be known where each were made, ownership statistics would be a lot different; cosmetics notwithstanding.


That would be fun, " The Blindfold Test " 8)

Have some fun with this little thing I put together JUST FOR FUN. See how you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFF5bvX0biE


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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:38 am
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Hay scott I just wanted to tell ya that the fretbord on you're kramer DMZ is Ebonol.That is a type of rubber they used to make bowling balls out of :wink: I've always wanted to talk to you :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Mexican vs American "Can't we just get along?"
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:56 am
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ScottGrove wrote:
Have some fun with this little thing I put together JUST FOR FUN. See how you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFF5bvX0biE


Mighty enlightening. And sure to gore someone's "sacred ox" for sure!

Three of the four guitars with the most pleasing (to my ear) single-coil tones turn out to be Gibsons!!!!

(#2, #12, #15)

My fourth choice was #18 -- and I've never really cared for Lace Sensors.

If I might ask, Scott -- what amp was used for the demo?

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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