G'day Mark T,

http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-japan-

Another good specimen that. No MIJ decal.
The seller seems pretty confident- Japanese 22 Contemporary.
I guess we'll just keep a record in this thread.

.....Mark.

Hi everyone, I know this an old post but I just have to join in. It started with my interest in finding an HM Strat to replace the one I sold in the mid 90's. A google search later and the phrase Fender Kahler Spyder lead me here.
Now thanks to reading this post I am the proud owner of another one of these Spyder Equipped mystery Strats.
The Hm's seem to come up on Ebay at least one a week, and 2 weeks ago when I searched Fender Kahler, to see what was listed I found an almost identical guitar to Boxbangs.
I knew it was a much rarer find then the HM and being a bit of an addict I knew I had to bid on it.
I totally agree these were made in Japan and that the country of origin was left off on purpose.
Fender America is highly competitive and sometimes even neurotic/paranoid of their Japanese counterpart.
I believe I have found a reference to these STD 22 fret Spyder equipped Strats in the1988 HM Strat Manual which I will post.
The spyder itself actually lends credence to the Made in Japan theory. All the Hm's made in Japan had the Kahler Spyders and evey other guitar I have found them stock on has come from Japan.
The only Hm's that may have been Made in America had Floyds on them.
One question I had to Boxbang, is if his pickups are original and if so are they have the Fender 016730 bobbins like mine and all the others I have seen posted here ?
At any rate let me figure out hot to post some pics and I will write more once I get this puppy set up.
< the Spyders do have radius adjustment built in, but most of the nuts were made for 17” HM Strat radius and many of the Tremolo's themselves were never re-adjusted to fit the 12” radius of the Standard necks>
Peace and Keep Jamming,
Chris

Couldn't figure the picture so here is a link to them on Skydrive
https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=a84bceccf3f8a87d&resid=A84BCECCF3F8A87D!121&parid=A84BCECCF3F8A87D!106&authkey=!AMwPAR3T87vB9VQ[/color]

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14170

Actually reading the manual It seems the Kahler Spyder on these 22 fret Standards where made directly for this guitar and not leftover from the Hm. Is states they unlike the the Hm tremolo have a radius adjustment screw built in to allow the use on the 12" radius of the 4300's neck.
http://www.xbqclub.com/sm/Fender%5C22034.PDF

G'day Chris, It's always good to hear from another owner of one of these beauties.
Yes, the pickups are original, everything except the pickguard.
As far as the type of pickups, well, I'm not really sure. Can you tell from this photo?



I found it very interesting to see your photo of the neck pocket and heel - exactly the same numbers as mine, except for the red stamped letter. I wonder what this means.



I have to go back to work now. I will read the HM manual and post later with some more details.



Goodonya ....Mark.

Hi Mark,
Hope all is well nice to meet ya. I am glad you started this thread. It is what lead me to finding one of these guitars and I love guitars with a story.
Of course my wife isn't as thrilled as I am. But she did giggle a little after asking why I really needed another guitar.
She played too when she was younger and she had 1986 Fender Squire we gave to my niece years back that was almost identical to this one but with out the Kahler
It was really one of the best set up Strats I have ever played but sadly back then, I was just to much of a name snob to realize guitars depended more on materials and craftsmanship then logo's.
From what I have read so far, the Neck pocket number was an internal code used only at the Fujigen Gakki factory in Japan.
The st stands for Stratocaster and the F means the neck is set up for a Floyd style tremolo.
The rest of what I have been able to learn is pure speculation.
Some people suggest the last 2 numbers notate body shape IE; ours would be modeled after a 1962, but I am not convinced. I think more likely they are feature codes indicating layout, paint colors/ finish and fretboard material.
Every Start I have seen out of FugiGen starts with the ST-5 designation.
The red letter stamp according to http://jimshine.com, is the inspectors stamp and his letter designation.
I am now convinced the model number of this particular guitar is 25-4300 and that is the updated version of the 27-4300 Japanese contemporary Strat with the Kahler Spyder purposefully manufactured directly for this model to replace the outdated Fender system one.
As for pickups, I can't quite see your well enough to make out any of the defining feature. Most of the one I have seen so far are plastic bobbins, square holes, imprinted with 016730.
Mine are and register 6.12k ohm, 6.04k ohm and 5.92 k ohm. b/m/n and the wires seem reversed. The whites are all soldered to to the toggle and the colored wires (blue/red/blue) are solder to the ground.
I have never seen this before.
The 016730, is actually just the bobbin part number and Fender started using them in 1980.
The are the bobbin used on the legendary x-1 and the Hendrix re-issues but they also end up everywhere from USA highway one to Made in Mexico Squires.
From my reading, the ones Fender Japan wrapped for the 25-4300 were based on a low output late 50's design with alnico 5 magnets.
I have yet to set this one up yet, but I am anxious to hear them and will certainly make some sound sample once I do.
Best regards and thanks for all the info and getting me started on this quest,
Peace and Keep Jamming,
Chris

Chris, that's great mate. I didn't realise this thread inspired you to buy the axe. It's good to have someone technically minded on board (which I am not).
I have a few thoughts on your guitar. You mention the fine tuners on the Spyder not being original, and yes, I think these would have been replaced by a previous owner. Also, on your nut (below) the hex bolts have also been changed.



On mine the hexes are very worn, so I can understand them being replaced.



Also the bolts of my trem have been slotted, the hex heads failed long ago.



The last time I was on the Kahler website, they still had limited NOS parts available for the Spyder. They weren't overly expensive but when you need 6X each component, the cost adds up. I was watching a used Spyder on ebay, but the bidding went through the roof.

Your guitar (1) is almost certainly original in every other respect.



It compares well to cpeck's Sunburst (2) , which had never been touched. As you can see, (3) I have a slightly different screw pattern on the pickguard.
Both yours and cpecks have those numbers on the pickups, mine does not although they have never been changed from new.

I haven't read all of the accompanying information in your post.
On thing I've noticed is - The examples which have a MIJ decal have different nuts installed, various types, but never the type that we have. All of the examples so far, with no MIJ decal, have the same type of nut (including yours, just new hex nuts).



The last two pictures have a MIJ decal. I don't know what the implications are. Just that this was a particular batch of guitars all with the same components, all with no decal.

The 25 4300.
Sounds good to me.
Goodonya ....Mark.

Well I don't know about technical but when it comes to mystery and Google I am a bit OCD LOL.
When I read what I type it sounds like I know what I am talking about but most of it is still just speculation and a reflection of my excitement at the thrill of the hunt.
You've got a great eye for detail Mark, I never noticed the different bolt on the nuts nor would I have picked up on the screw pattern if you hadn't of pointed it out.
Even then the srew pattern took me a minute, It was still like looking at one of the spot the differences pictures.
I love Google, and when I search Fender st-5 and let the auto fill take over it gives a lot of those bridge pockets numbers and they all have great stories with people who seem to have more questions then answers.
One guy really seemed to know a lot. I will have to find that link again and post it.
He was talking about the colors used in the logos and the colors used on serial numbers. It seemed with great certainty he could tell the country and date of origin from just seeing the logos Font, Size, Placement and coloration.
He placed our models as Fender Japan and said the reason they have no label is they were a sort of grey market item.
The Fender America plant was just revving up and supply was limited so distributors were scrambling to meet orders and many unofficial imports never directly sanctioned by Fender of America were used to make up the difference. He claimed the markings were purposefully left off or removed so as to not ruffle any feathers but still keep Fender and their re-seller from suffering any backlash for not being able to meet customer demand.
I will post a link when I can , I am being called out the door to do some Christmas shopping,
Peace and Keep Jamming,
Chris
One of my googles, just interesting stuff
http://www.google.com/search?q=fender+st-5&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=djU&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=fender%20st-54&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=b6d6a46c312ca0ab&biw=1920&bih=997&pf=p&pdl=500

OK What do we have so far?

Many examples of a Japanese made Stratocaster with the following specs-

*Circa 1988.
*No country of manufacture decal.
* E8xxxxxxx serial number
*22 frets
*12 inch neck radius
*SSS pickups
*Kahler "Spyder" tremolo bridge and locking nut.
*Gotoh tuners
*Available in 4 colours- Black, White, Sunburst, and candy Apple Red.





In the Fender timeline our guitar comes after the Contemporary 22 with Systems 1,2and 3 tremolo and before the HM Strats.

Thanks for resurrecting the thread Chris. Iv'e learnt a bit more.
I'd still like to know a bit more about the "grey market" you speak of.

Please add to the thread with any new info and examples.
Together we can make the 25 4300 a collectors item (well, in your case, it's already a reality )

Goodonya .....Mark.

Here's one for sale on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980s-Fender-St ... 500wt_1173

The ST557 (sunburst) in a Fender Japan catalog.




It has this type of nut though.



.....and I'm sure they'd have the MIJ decal.

I wonder how this nut came into the equation.



The research will be ongoing.

Goodonya ...Mark

The top photo shows the Fender System 1 String Lock - which is identical to the string lock used with Schaller-built trems found on Schecter guitars circa 1985 and then on Ernie Ball/Music Man guitar from 1986-1989. The Schecter version was branded the "Trem-Lock" system and had the Schecter logo stamped onto a small metal bar that was screwed onto the guitar body (these trems had a long knife edge that fit into that metal bar); the EBMM trem was identical except it did not have anything stamped on the metal bar for the knife edge.

The lower nut was one developed by Kahler at the time they shifted from their original cam-style trems to the Floyd Rose licensed trems like the Spyder. Fender simply started using the lower locking nut when they transitioned to using the Spyder trem. I believe I have seen both the Schaller-style string lock behind the nut and the Floyd-style Kahler locking nut on the ones of this model that shipped with the Kahler fulcrum trems (the ones in-between the System 1 and the Spyder trem).

Makes sense John. Thanks mate. You have a wealth of knowledge in these matters.

All the examples with no MIJ decal have this nut.



....but some of the ones with this nut have the decal (Andy's for example)

The funny thing is, you could put a MIJ decal on these things and at least double the price, as they pass any other test for an '88 MIJ.

Goodonya ...Mark.

G'day albala, That certainly looks like our model neck which you put on the Tele and the Spyder seems to be factory fitted to the flamed body. It's a different body to the ones discussed here though, most likely a HM Strat I'd say.
Does yours have the MIJ decal?

I would be willing to bet that albala's Strat doesn't have the MIJ decal. It looks like this is one of those strange circa 1989/1990 models that would appear to be a more deluxe version of the Conteporary Standard - it appears that these also didn't get the MIJ decal.

These aren't an HM; it seems like they were a brief attempt to make something that would fill 2 perceived "needs":

1. A more conservative HM - same pickups but in a full-size body with a 22 fret 25 1/2" scale neck instead of a downsized body with a wider 24 fret neck with a 25.1" scale; and
2. A more deluxe Contemporary Standard with HSS pickups and a figured maple top

These guitars were real oddballs and they couldn't have lasted more than one year before they were replaced with those MIJ photo-flame Strats with the Floyd Rose II trems (and vintage-style headstock decals).

Probably a lot less than if it had the MIJ decal.
That is until we can get something official from Fender - that the decal was intentionally omitted from certain models in the late eighties.

I wonder if "Made in Japan" was left off deliberately, or if the necks were made in USA, as we have been hypothesizing, then shipped to Japan for assembly, and in the confusion of those days they just didn't bother putting on a new decal.

hope you are all well,
-M