Strat / Eric Johnson nut slot

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

Another mistake. You know ... old man typing while on the phone.

nikininja · **Posted:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:46 pm

Well in truth, you'll spend more on even cheap nut slot files. I paid £95 for my Hosco ones and £75 for my cheapie Normans Nut's set. Which I really prefer.
He's selling em for around $50 now on the guitar size files only. I bought the 13 file set.
http://stores.ebay.com/Norman-Nut-Files

Brilliant for first timers. The spacing on the slot template is a little close for my liking but in no way wrong.
You can even use them to measure across your frets and into the slot to check you have the right depth for the slot.

When you're ready, I'll take you through it at length with proper pictures.

dragonsoni · **Joined:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:59 am **Posts:** 6

First post here - Thank you very much!

It does sound like your nut is cut low but how much relief do you have in the neck and how is the intonation. Specifically how true is a fretted note on frets 1 - 3?

To high of a nut can cause fretted notes on frets 1 - 3 to become sharp# when played.

I hope this helps,
Dragonsoni

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

The relief seems to measure correctly and the only string that has intonation problems is the low E. I can get that very close, but can't get the saddle back any further so it is a tiny bit sharp at the 12th fret. Are you saying that despite that, I should check intonation at frets 1, 2, and 3 to see where they fall?

dragonsoni · **Joined:** Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:59 am **Posts:** 6

tc4all wrote:

The relief seems to measure correctly and the only string that has intonation problems is the low E. I can get that very close, but can't get the saddle back any further so it is a tiny bit sharp at the 12th fret. Are you saying that despite that, I should check intonation at frets 1, 2, and 3 to see where they fall?

Checking the 1st 3 frets really won't help you in this instance. Sorry for any confusion. The low E string could be bad and causing it not to intinate or sticking in the nut.

Even thought the neck measures correctly it may just need a little more relief. Tolerances can be different for every guitar and players just like different set-ups.

Nut slots can also be builted back up a little with a mixture of ..super glue... can't remember right now. Then refiled.

Again, if you are not sure on how to do this type of work I would take it to a tech. Most techs are willing show you the basics.

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

Thank you so much.

nikininja · **Posted:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:35 pm

TC
I've been right into low fret intonation and out the other side. I designed then measured my own compensated nut.
Here is one designed to make a 3 saddle telecaster with compensated saddles intonate somewhere near good enough on the 1st four frets of the guitar to get four of the five open shape chords sounding intune.

The one on the left is the strat 6 saddle shape. The right is the 3 saddle tele shape.

I can assure you from extensively measuring, cutting, remeasuring. That saddle adjustment affects the first 3 frets very very little. Less so on the bass strings. Reason being that aside from open Gmaj all the 3rds (note that determines major or minor) is on the treble strings. That is the real sticking point of open chords. If anything will make a open chord sound out, it will be the high E on Dmaj/mi open. The B string on A maj/mi open and the G string on the Emaj open. The 3rds really point out the problem, because 3rds in modern music are off.
Don't worry about saddle adjustment, it plays a very little part here. It's entirely down to the nut slots. You've already determined that. :wink:

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

Actually I have proper intonation on the first 4 frets of all strings except the low E and A. I have proper intonation o the 12th of all strings.

nikininja · **Posted:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:13 pm

That suggests that the nut slots on the E&A are too high, not too low.

Once you fret a note, the nut is not in play. You've cut the talk length of the string short, causing the higher pitch.
Too high a nut slot causes a extreme angle of the string between the nut and fretted note, which in turn causes the fretted note to sharpen.

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

Argh! I think I was just holding the strings too tightly, something I have a bad habit of doing. It is pretty much fine at frets 1 through 3 except maybe the low E is still just a bit off. Of course it is a touch off at the 12 fret too if I am really being critical. Unless I shorten the spring I can't pull the saddle back anymore. I'll check tonight and may even change strings to see what happens. The strings at the nut are either almost low enough to need a new nut, or there already. Even the luthier I spoke with said the nut is almost ready to replace. It doesn't all add up.

Ceri · **Posted:** Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:28 pm

tc4all wrote:

Argh! I think I was just holding the strings too tightly, something I have a bad habit of doing.

Yes, I suspect that is the cause of intonation issues at low frets, because we've already established that the nut slots are too low, not too high.

tc4all wrote:

Unless I shorten the spring I can't pull the saddle back anymore. I'll check tonight and may even change strings to see what happens.

It is a known occasional issue. All you have to do is neatly trim that saddle spring to about half it's current length with a pair of pliers or snips and you'll be fine. Though I'd let your tech check the bridge is floating in the right place first: it might not even be necessary.

tc4all wrote:

It doesn't all add up.

I think it does. A new nut, as already discussed, is going to sort this stuff out for you. Provided your tech is a good one - and not just some hack kid messing around in the back room of a music shop - he'll do a nice setup for you too and then you can put all of this behind you and concentrate on the important bit: playing that Strat!

Enjoy - C

tc4all · **Joined:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:20 pm **Posts:** 30

Thanks for the advice. It is very much appreciated.

tyguy · **Joined:** Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:55 pm **Posts:** 32

Ceri wrote:

tc4all wrote:

This started as I investigated string buzzing, mostly on the A and D strings, when fretted, despite having higher then suggested strings, 6/64ths instead of 4/64ths. One thing lead to the next and the nut was suggested as the culprit, though I can't see it as such.

Hi tc4all: couple of things to add to what has already been said.

First, if there is buzzing on fretted notes it ain't the nut. You've probably worked that out by now, but just to be clear, once you fret a string you've taken the nut out of the system. The nut can only be the culprit if the buzzing is on open strings.

And a quick way to assess whether the slots in the nut are cut to the right depth. Fret a string at the first fret and then study the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the third fret. Then fret the same string at the third fret and study the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret. If those gaps are pretty much the same then the slots are cut to the right depth. If the second gap is smaller than the first one (or there is no gap at all on the second test) then the slots are too deep. If the second gap is much bigger than the first one then the slots are not deep enough.

Repeat for all six strings in turn. A rough and ready test, but quite good enough for assessment purposes.

Second thing. If you buy a very affordable pre-slotted GraphTech TUSQ nut it comes with a little tab on the bottom. If your nut slot is a flat one you leave that tab in place. If the slot is radiused then you trim the tab off and the bottom of the nut is then curved to fit the slot. Simple.

Those TUSQ nuts are radiused to fit 9.5" slots, but that will be no problem if yours is 12". Due to the geometry of the situation.

Cheers - C

Best idea yet!Making a nut properly takes a lot of skill on the bottom and top.TUSQ is good except for string spacing depending on neck width sometimes.

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