Ohhh Ceri.... get your coat indeed

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My Rig: Guitar into Pedals then into Amps and out into Speakers.

There is nothing illegal about what they are doing. Whoever said that is crazy. George Gruhn and many others have been lowballing instruments for decades from people down on their luck or caught in a misfortunate circumstance. I don't see anyone calling them off the porch about it. There isn't one person on here who wouldn't jump at the chance to buy a vintage piece at a low price. Heck, for that matter, take your most valuable piece of music gear to your nearest GC or Sam Ash and see what they offer you for it. An early 70's Fender Twin will get you around 350-400 cash or about 500-600 at the top end if trading.

I wouldn't hesitate if the person knew what they had. Hey, if they are hard up for the cash and want a quick sale, that's fine. I draw the line at taking advantage of someone who doesn't know what they have. Like the guy I was talking about earlier who bought a pre-war Martin from someone for $150. That's just wrong.

I don't think there's anything illegal as long as they come through with the cash or their checks don't bounce.

If you read the links they have been breaking the law by getting people to invest in gold and old coins then not producing the goods.

All the same crowd.

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No no and no

About 25 years ago a girl I know wanted to get a Gibson SJ 200 her father had willed to her appraised.The insurance company told her to go to a "reputable dealer" well she went to a local dealer who was supposed to be in the know about vintage guitar prices.This dealer had other things on his mind and offered her a "generous"$800 for it.She said that the guitar would never be sold and that she needed an appraisal strictly for insurance purposes but he stuck to the $800.I told her that it was worth(at the time)$3,500 but the insurance company wouldn't accept my figure as I wasn't a dealer-little did they know that dealers regularly contacted me regarding vintage guitar values-so I recommended George Gruhn.The appraisal cost her $50 I believe and his figure came in right on the nose the same as mine $3,500.

There are some very unscrupulous dealers out there ready to prey on trusting naive people who take them at there word figuring that they are above board.Granted these guys may not be illegal but they are certainly immoral.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Here's the bottom dollar- these guys have no inventory of their own. I bet they couldn't even afford to have any- otherwise they would have set up a shop on their own. They hope to have a poor bloke walk through the door uneducated on his vintage guitar worth and make money. On one hand they have a schmuck who has a guitar which they will low ball a dollar value, on the other they have a buyer who will pay a premium that could be priced over the market value. In the middle, there is a margin which they will pocket.

If the buyer is paying a 'market value' then there would be no margin if the seller is selling for 'market value'- it just wouldnt make sense to travel the countryside selling guitars and make no profit. Unless you have the intent of 'low-balling' the seller to make a profit. It just cannot be legitimate whichever way you look at it- and to top it off, in an age of mobile wireless internet and internet bank transfers in your nominated bank account, they deal in cheques!

So they probably get all types of people going in with guitars made in the 80's that arent worth the hassle or the money- but for every 100 people they see, there would be an old fella walking in with the old Tele he hasnt played since he was in his early 20's but hasnt got round to getting rid of it... and has no idea what its worth at all.

I'd sooner buy from a store owner who takes pride in their small business and works hard to put a meal on their plate. Thats what you call an honest bloke. To an extent I can see your point about sam ash and GC- but they have their own stock, inventory and commercial premises. These guys travel in suitcases with none at all.

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Warn everyone everwhere!

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I remember when we were free!

Haha, on their site (http://www.ivgca.com/) it says:

"What We Buy:
RENDER

GIBSON

EPIPHONE

MARTIN

RICKENBACKER"

Now I want a RENDER.

I think the whole castration thing is ridiculous guys. We live in America where there's a thing called capitalism. These guys are no different than any retailer with a brick and mortar store. Do any of you judgmental guys know how much furniture stores mark up merchandise or how much dealerships make on cars?
It's all about knowing what you're selling. If someone is stupid enough not to do research on their gear and know it's worth before selling it then that's on them. Google is your friend! If a company like IVGCA is taking advantage of elderly people who don't have access to the internet, that's a whole other thing. That's bad, no matter how you look at it.

I say, know your gear and you won't be ripped off!

That's the thing, they don't have any gear, and they also don't have a store. Car dealers and the like make a margin, they have to pay rents and wages like any retail business.. but they have their own stock and overheads as they are a business.

It would be like me asking my neighbor across the street if they want to sell their strat for $900 because I have a buyer. then I go to my neighbour next door, offering and successfully selling that strat to them for $1500 & pocketing the difference.. hypothetically.

I would never buy any product from someone who operates from a hotel room/conference facility, as if I had any issues- by the time I would.. they would be long gone

I agree that anyone should do their homework, but there will always be people that do not know any better.. like inherited estate's for example.

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Nothing like resurrecting an old thread, eh? As I mentioned in my post - I was at their "event" here in Louisville in January. I didn't care for the vibe; it was mostly senior citizens with 60's-era discount store instruments. The few folks who had instruments where I had a fairly decent idea of the value (Gibsons, Fenders, Rics) were coming out with lowball offers (circa 1970 ES-335 with no breaks/issues - this crew offered the owner $900 for it; he laughed them off since those go for more like $2,500).

No, not illegal, just kind of a sleazy method - make people wait forever hoping to make them more likely to take the lowball offer since they have already "invested" a lot of time and they won't have to haul their stuff back home.

I've been to one of their events in the past and they offered me less than what my guitars were worth. I said no and left. I realize that they are a business, maybe not a traditional business but a business none the less. They're a broker...which is not illegal, not bad people, not sleazy. I agree with a prior post, I think it would certainly be better if they wrote checks but they don't. There's a small company I found on the web that's called Music City Pickers that pays green cash and they seem like they give a $h*t. That's what IVGCA should be doing! I still think IVGCA is offering a service. You can either choice to use it or not. But don't castrate them:-)

So as long as you are a business, that automatically legitimizes you/it as a beyond reproach business.....
By that definition then loansharking would be totally legitimate.....
The reluctance to write checks means that it becomes that much harder for a seller to prove that there was intent to defraud.....
Look at it this way... If I were to offer someone a certain price for an item....At a later time after the sale I was to find out that that item was worth much more than I had paid for it then it would be up to me to decide if I wanted to compensate the seller for the additional profit I had made...In this instance I had no idea of the value of this item...In this case I would not be culpable and it would be just a case of a very profitable transaction.
The difference here is that this enterprise knows fully well the value of the items they are after and purposely offer well below market value ( to say the least ). That in my book is fraudulent, because they are attempting to swindle unsuspecting sellers.
You would have a very difficult time winning this argument in a court of law, as a matter of fact, there is ample case precedent where restitution at fair market value was the judgment.
Realtors and Real Estate transactions are very much guilty of such practices...In numerous instances.

If they actually ran a legitimate business, then there would be no need for the smoke and mirrors, not to mention the sheer difficult impossibility of contacting them.

I was going to just pop-corn this thread but your judgment that at the very least these people are....Neither Bad People or Sleazy leaves the rest of us to wonder just what type of refuse you normally hang out with..... .

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

Wow... Now it's become personal? Really?

I'm simply going on how I was raised. Those among you without sin, cast the first stone. You nor I know what this company profits or what kind of people really work for this company.

What about this...what if someone were to sell a counterfeit guitar to them. Who gets the raw end of the deal? IVGCA does. I'm sure it happens all of the time.

Everybody loves to get a good deal. If you know something is normally worth one price yet you find it somewhere else cheaper is that wrong? No. If you turn around and sell it for a profit, is that illegal or sleazy? No. That's all this is.

Whether or not someone pays cash or check is another issue. If you want to take a strangers check and take a chance on the check bouncing, that's your call. I wouldn't do it, but I shouldn't judge someone else for doing it. Maybe they're hard up for cash and are willing to roll the dice. Maybe they couldn't sell it anywhere else. Who knows?

I've said it before but I'll say it again. To take advantage of someone elderly that simply doesn't know any better is not cool in any way shape or form in my opinion.

But if you're a normal everyday dude that has access to the internet then it's up to you to know the value of what you're selling. No one is twisting your arm to sell. Just know that IVGCA is a business and they have to make a profit on what they buy or it doesn't make since for them to buy in the first place.

Their website has all of their reps phone numbers. There are plenty of ways to contact them.

Again...you're judging me man and I don't appreciate that. I know I have high morals and values and I was raised to do the right thing. With that said, I'll walk away from this conversation. I didn't mean to offend and if I did I'm sorry.

To take advantage of anyone is wrong...I dont care if they are young,old, fat, skinny whatever....I just followed a link to there page....and from what I read they say they will tell you what your guitar , drums whatever is worth and might make a offer.....now if they tell me my guitar is worth $10,000 and offer me $3,000 and I take it.....then its all on me.
but if they offer me $3.000 and make it seem like thats near the top of what they can get (and dont bother telling me what it is worth) then its all on them......you cant plan on them to give you full price (they do it to make money after all) but you can make money doing this and be honest.....I guess maybe its just me.....in my silly little world I like to think man is honest....and before any ask....if I ran into a guy selling something I wanted for much lees then it was worth.....I WOULD say "yes I want it....but do you know you could get alot more then you are asking?"

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2008 Am. Std. Strat
2008 Am. Deluxe Strat
2010 Am. Deluxe Strat
2011 Am. Std. Strat
2011 Am. Std. Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe
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