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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:18 am
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JRmusic wrote:
Callaham says:
-"Steel is the only material that should be used for the block."
-"We guarantee you will hear the improvement after installing our block in both sustain and clarity. "

random Ebay vendor brass block quote
-"Brass tremolo blocks are known to improve the tone and sustain of the guitar"

KGC says this about their brass blocks on Ebay:
"Enhance your tone and increase sustain more than you ever thought possible"

So someone is fulloshit maybe.. :lol:

But what increases sustain? A direct transfer of vibration from springs to guitar body?
Depends what wood the guitar is made out of doesn't it? A softer wood would dissipate your vibrations. A guitar string strung between two 1 ton blocks of steel would likely vibrate longer than a string strung between two trees.

Sustain should mean, correct me if wrong, how long your strings vibrate for?

Then we still have two descriptors left over... "tone and clarity" but I`m gunna focus on sustain experiments for now.



The wood of a guitar is certainly a huge factor in tone, sustain, etc. Our trem blocks are designed slightly different than those you will get for original equipment as well as other aftermarket company's designs - we worked out a design that maximizes the effect of the brass. It is relatively subtle, but it is different. Our brass allows vibration to continue, at a greater rate, from the strings, through the bridge and block, springs and claw and back into the body of your guitar.

I know you guys are all skeptical about what I say because I am selling this stuff, but the bottom line is - I wouldn't have quit my full-time job with benefits, etc to manufacture/sell this stuff if I didn't know it was the best out there. With our trem blocks, you can actually feel the increase in vibration without even plugging your guitar in. Plucking one string will make your leg tickle... We offer a guarantee to everyone that purchases our stuff - If you don't like it...Send it back for a full refund. That's it. I don't know all of the science behind how and why this stuff enhances tone, sustain, clarity, etc (I am learning as I go) but I do know that it does - more than any other upgrades I have ever seen/heard.

If any of you have any questions or ideas for me, please feel free to contact me any time. Thanks for your interest in our company - whether your opinion is positive, neutral or negative.

Rick Peek
KGC
rick@killerguitarcomponents.com
978-473-1323


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:28 pm
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thanks Killerguitar.

Quote:
Any way and like I said, theoretically the brass makes sense. Regardless though and like I also said, I am not willing to spend that kind of money to find out either way. We shall see what we shall see if it catches on and in time, the collective verdict of the actual users.


You got a point, the killerguitar claws could cost you a fair amount if you are having them shipped somewhere. They do look superior to other claws though, and honestly if I were to try one, I would probably go for one of those.
I still don`t know how much vibration actually makes it past your springs though, but I will find out as soon as my vibration measuring tool becomes available.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:43 am
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Has anyone else tried the Killer Brass Claw? We have sold over 500 of them to this point with 100% positive feedback! Our customers have been raving about them, telling us that the biggest difference is the overall stable feel that is added to the trem. You also notice a bit more resonance, sustain and warm tone increase. If you haven't heard of them yet - check them out at www.killerguitarcomponents.com and go the "claws" on the left menu.

Hope everyone is having a "Killer" summer!!!


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:01 am
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Great stuff


Last edited by windwalker9649 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:04 pm
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[


Last edited by windwalker9649 on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:07 pm
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Why dont people realize that the wood of the body on a strat has little to do with tone, it has some, but not as much as the necks wood, or the trem. The strings dont come into contact with the wood, the pickups float over an open cavity suspended by plastic, that itself is attached by its very edge. We'er not talking about a string through like a Tele or Les Paul here


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:53 pm
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Well, the tremelo is fastened to wood, that is the ultimate termination of the strings whether it be a string through body, a gibson or whatever, the hardware ultimately is fastened to wood. Unless you have some kind of 80`s plexiglass or wierd composite guitar...

Anyway I still want to conduct some vibration experiments but I am having a hell of a time getting a time slot to use the tool. Apparently real work takes precedence over my private experimentations.....

I`ll be back


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:21 am
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True, but a Gibson is fastened directly to the body, whereas a strat is floating, so there is much less actual metal to wood contact. When I built my strat, i tried an ash, alder and mahogonay body, and didnt really notice much difference when played acousticlly. BUt the different neck material was much more noticeable.
ANyway,, the long and short of it is, KCG trems are tops. They're different sounding than steel, but to my ears more pleasant. Liek i said, you still hget the high freq, but without anhy harshness. ANd it does have more sustain than the Callaham block.
And to me sustain isnt just how long the strings vibrate, but how long that initial attact volume lasts


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:46 am
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You can describe sustain any way you want. But the sound lasts as long as the string vibrates for. I don't think you are really describing anything different by your attack volume statement, volume is tied directly to string vibration isn't it?

I agree that a Floyd rose is floating and that some vibration must be lost through the springs, That is the intent of the thread I started. I am pretty sure that most of the resonance/vibration from a floating bridge enters the guitar body at the bridge posts rather than the spring claw.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:42 am
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Theres no doubt that its true the posts will transfer the energy more than the springs. When I speak i of KGC stuff, IM referring to the tremolo,; the block, and bridge plate, more than springs and claw. But those two things definitely have an effect onb the tone. When I replaced the cheap zinc based tremolo. As I replaced it, I wanted to see what parts affected the tone by replaccing parts one by one, starting with the posts,and claw, there was a difference. Then I replaced the lower grade springs with the stiffer Callaham, and again it affected it, not the sustain as much as the attack. Then I just reolaced the whole thing. And it was night and day in the difference. Many people say the bought a callaham to replace a trem from a custom shop piece & didn't notice much of a difference. This isn't surprising singe the ones built by Fenders Custom Shop are very similar to the Callaham in their materials and build process. But there is a huge difference when comparing one with a MIM strat, and a marked difference in American standards and deluxes, though not to the same degree. Its true sustain can be definied by the jength of time the strings vibrate, but I measure it by the sustain of the initial attack because; it doesn't really matter if they vibrate for 10 minutes, if you inly "hear" it for 15 seconds. If I plug a tuner in and hit a string, it will show the needle staying up for much longer than we can actually hear the note ring out. Its that whole "if a tree falls but no ones around to hear it does it make a sound" thing.
I've since moved from Callaham to KGC, and am going to have a block for a PRS made. My trem is blocked on the custom 22, so I figured it didn't make a difference. But a customer had a brass block on a 22, identicle to mine, even down to the Fralin PAF pickups, and though his was also blocked. It had a much richer harmonic content. The brass gave it its unique harmonic signature, and the block wedxged between the block and the side of the blocks cavity in the body worked to transfer the energy to gthe body, giving it improved sustain and resonance. The sustain was incredible. It was plugged into just a Blues. Jr, and the note rang true and long, enough tbe able to hit the note. Let it ring, bend it up and hold it for a second, then lower it back down, and it never seemed to drop in volume.
The brass gives it a unique tone, and if you like your strat to have sharrp cut, like a Tele, you'd probably be better off with a Callaham type trem that used machined steel. Bugt the brass gives it the cut of a single coil, with some harmonic overtones mostly found in humbucker equiped guitars.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:55 pm
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Back from the dead. Sorry if I left anyone hanging. I did finally get a chance to try experimenting with a vibration meter, but the results were inconclusive. The meter I had could not seem to operate below a certain threshold, so all tests would just drop completely off scale before the resonance had stopped. Oscilloscope on a pickup perhaps? -I dunno.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:07 pm
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Hey JR,

Thanks for getting back on this...not that I'm in the market for new hardware, but the topic is certainly a curiousity.

If you have software to do vibration analysis, you could try using a simple mechanical transducer (acoustic pickup) and capture the output into a A/D or digital scope...etc...

You might see a difference in the decay envelope between different configurations.

From a mechanical POV, I would suspect that much of the vibration transfer takes place between the bridge and the 2/6 screws holding it to the body, with perhaps a bit more in a blocked or fully sprung configuration. As mentioned earlier, the springs should dampen out a lot of the vibration before getting to the claw and I would not suspect that part of the mechanical system to contribute much to any resonance/sustain...

But, I've been wrong before... :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:54 pm
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Heyjoe, I'm still curious for answers, but my failed vibration experiments made me put it in the back burner. I think a pickup output analysis might work better. I actually found reference to an interesting experiment on sustain here:
http://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys406/Student_Projects/Fall00/STreharne/STreharne_P398EMI_Final_Report.pdf


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:55 pm
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Ps I know the thread was thought to be dead!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:56 am
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i put a brass block on my favorite strat and it had a "new" thick alloy block in it not the skinny chopped up ones like the strats from a few years back had in them. i didn't change the strings (it seems that all the youtube vids all show string changes. that naturaly makes a brighter sound......hmmmm). even with the old strings the brass block did improve the sound. it was a LITTLE brighter and the sustain did increase a bit, all the notes were more even and "pluckyer"(is that a word). i had to oil the string holes so the strings wouldn't stick in the block(brass does cause friction). my bridge is blocked and locked down.


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