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Post subject: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:39 pm
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Also advertized as a "Tone Monster"

Now, I get the brass tremelo block idea, it makes sense, but brass spring claw?
Do you all really think it could affect tone enough that we might call it a tone monster?
Man, I just don't see it.

Also, you can buy a brass trem stopper now, a small brass bracket with a steel threaded stopper.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:12 am
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Brass is a copper/zinc alloy and frankly I'm doubtful that it has the tensile strength or rigidity to hold two (or more) steel Strat trem springs under permanent pressure without stretching or deforming, both of which will cause constant tuning stability issues.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:17 am
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It was only 25 years ago that brass was being denounced as a sustain killer, after the trend of brass everything in the 70's.
Look at the Tele's saddles. Brass directly contacting the string. Could you really say it has superior sustain though? Despite also being one of the true string through body guitars.

If you keep buying from em, they'll keep making up this nonsense.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:24 am
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the brass claw i have seen is a milled thick chunk of metal but i dont see how its tone could pass threw the springs......its snake oil.....but will hold


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:36 am
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i cant c a brass claw making any difference...

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:47 pm
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Ahh so we even have a denouncement of the brass trem block as well then? Interesting.....


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:11 pm
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Hey guys. I stumbled across this thread and couldn't help but to chime in. I am one of the owners of Killer Guitar Components. We manufacture high-end, brass components (trem blocks, bridges, etc) for Strats and like guitars.

First off, let me say that OUR Heavy-Duty Brass Claw is not snake oil. I have sold quite a few of these claws (http://www.killerguitarcomponents.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=25&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=146&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53) over the last few months since we released them and many of these customers have written back to me saying how they cannot believe that something as simple as a claw can make such a difference in tone, sustain, balance and stability on their trem.

There truly is a positive change in tone and sustain as well as overall stability and balance with this claw. As with all of KGC products - even if you just don't like it - we will give you a full refund upon return with no questions asked...

A few things to think about regarding these claws....

There is no concern about the fingers of the claw bending because our claw is MILLED from a solid billet of brass and is very heavy-duty - there are some others out there I, personally would be concerned about (they are bent though)

Installation is very easy. We have designed the claw with a solder-free lug. All you have to do is splice the ground wire, crimp it into the connector and shrink it with a lighter or heat gun. Otherwise its just a matter of 2 screws and the springs being removed and re-installed.

We also provide 2 brass screws to go with the claw. This helps to increase transfer of vibration a little more.

With the addition of the mass of this claw it allows for extra transmission of vibration through your trem and into the body of your guitar. This creates more sustain and allows your pickups to "hear" more of your tone from the body of your guitar.

NONE of our products are "snake oil" We research each one to be sure that there are significant improvements heard/seen/felt upon installing them. Please feel free to email me or message me if any of you should have any questions about this or any other product.

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:10 pm
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I went with a brass block in my Floyd Rose equipped Strat, as well as a brass trem-stop.
I did notice a difference with the addition of these pieces, and made some sound files available in another thread here: http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50998&sid=e36425895577a52ef977bcf5c39e453b

I originally asked this question with the idea that I would probably get a brass block and trem stop anyway.

The way I have interpreted brass theory so far (been lead to believe), and am pretty sure other places explain it, is that it solidifies the way your strings are held, reducing the amount of vibration that can pass through it so that your strings vibrate longer and react faster. i.e, with a brass block you are reducing the amount of vibration that is lost through your tremelo and springs. Of course now I am hearing a variation with the previous post, where brass is apparently a vibration transfer tool, so who do you listen too?

I just can't see that having brass at the end of your springs would do much, simply because of what side of your springs it is on.

So, that being said, I am maybe more mechanically inclined than the next guy, I enjoy researching crap like this, but it was my ears that told me the brass block sounded better.

I am so intrigued I am actually looking into securing a vibration sensor from the instrumentation group where I work, so that I can measure vibrations at various spots with and without my brass stuff...
That`s the testing I would like to see.
I might one day get a brass claw for testing purposes, you never know, they are fairly cheap after all.

Quote:
this claw is made from KGC's secret alloy of musical brass, so it will increase sustain and enhance tone more than any other claw available! Try one today!




What does this mean? do you actually have a forge where you are experimenting with and creating your own secret brass alloys? Did you make a recipie for a brass alloy, and order it from some sort of brass factory?


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:12 am
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Fascinating. The vast majority readily buys into Callaham's claims yet not KGC's.

Actually, I do believe these brass claws will indeed make a difference; theoretically at least, anyway. Granted, in terms of saddles and nuts, thin brass UNDER pressure will compress/deform easily, oxidize and indeed, kill tone. Yet, with a thick, milled spring claw not under compression, this should work rather well. Case in point: Listen to a steel bell and then a similar sized and shaped one made out of brass. The brass will resound louder, longer and have a more pleasing tonality. Or, drop a steel disk and a similar brass disk on a hard floor, the same results will be had.

No, I do not know the good people at KGC.

Would I use one? Nope. Just like Callaham's offerings, this stuff is way overpriced. Besides, I did without these 'upgrades' on my Strats for 44 years now and I'm sure I'll continue to manage without such things until it's time for, "The Big Dirt Nap".

As always, this is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:20 pm
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Think of it this way, your trem springs are very likely to soak up far more vibration than the claw that holds them. If they vibrate because of your strings being plucked, it seems obvious that they will dissipate that energy quite well. Think of springs on a car and their ability to dissipate road bumps. This is why I am kind of doubting the ability of the claw to do much.
If the theory works you should be able to tell differences from having 5 springs, or having 3 (?)

-This is just conjecture, mind you, we shall see.

By the way, Who is Callaham? -Floyd Rose Upgrades?


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:27 pm
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JRmusic wrote:
...By the way, Who is Callaham?...


For your perusal:
http://www.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htm

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:14 pm
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Callaham says:
-"Steel is the only material that should be used for the block."
-"We guarantee you will hear the improvement after installing our block in both sustain and clarity. "

random Ebay vendor brass block quote
-"Brass tremolo blocks are known to improve the tone and sustain of the guitar"

KGC says this about their brass blocks on Ebay:
"Enhance your tone and increase sustain more than you ever thought possible"

So someone is fulloshit maybe.. :lol:

But what increases sustain? A direct transfer of vibration from springs to guitar body?
Depends what wood the guitar is made out of doesn't it? A softer wood would dissipate your vibrations. A guitar string strung between two 1 ton blocks of steel would likely vibrate longer than a string strung between two trees.

Sustain should mean, correct me if wrong, how long your strings vibrate for?

Then we still have two descriptors left over... "tone and clarity" but I`m gunna focus on sustain experiments for now.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:48 am
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I don't buy into any of it.


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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:14 am
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tbazzone wrote:
I don't buy into any of it.


As a rule, I don't buy into such things either. Admittedly, I did scoff when Floyds originally came out too; who ever heard of a Strat tremolo which remains completely in tune after 'vigorous' use? And to give a balanced presentation, I still don't buy into the whole Callaham thing.

Any way and like I said, theoretically the brass makes sense. Regardless though and like I also said, I am not willing to spend that kind of money to find out either way. We shall see what we shall see if it catches on and in time, the collective verdict of the actual users.

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Post subject: Re: Brass Spring Claw?
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:55 am
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Quote:
this claw is made from KGC's secret alloy of musical brass, so it will increase sustain and enhance tone more than any other claw available! Try one today!




Quote:
What does this mean? do you actually have a forge where you are experimenting with and creating your own secret brass alloys? Did you make a recipie for a brass alloy, and order it from some sort of brass factory?


Before we began offering our products to our customers, we made brass trem blocks from a number of different brass alloys that we got from a local metal supplier. We installed each one, listened for tone, sustain and looked at a spectrum analysis done on Audacity (audacity.com). We found the alloy that looked and sounded to have the best overall tone and sustain improvements. It is not some secret recipe for brass that we came up with - it is just a different alloy than what is generally used by other companies that we found to be the most musical. Nothing more.


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