You saved me Mr. C.! I was just on my way out to the shop to throw iron filings all over this new Strat I am building! I was wondering how I was going to get those filings off my pickups??? Oh BTW, the neck sock on the Strat on my build thread is really nice and snug. Seems to me that tight contact means better integrity!

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

Cripes, really? I thought the moment had passed.

OK: well I've had an amazingly busy few days but I'll do something tomorrow (bedtime now where I am). And I'll take a photo or two of the flatsawn wood in my Jazz Bass and Tele bodies too - just cos we like pictures!

Also, I just noticed that the neck of my '57RI is exactly flatsawn too. And there ain't a hint of wow and flutter to that baby's tone!

Pix to come.

'Night all - C

PS: just seen Xhefri's latest - yep, tightness is a pretty fine thing in my book too, far as neck pockets is concerned. Cheers to you, Mr X.

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I'm just hanging in here and soaking up all of this free knowledge!!

That's a cool trick and I actually use the technique to tune when I'm restringing sometimes.

My favourite guitar (and only electric) at present is a Gibson Melody Maker (one of the newer reissue ones) - I love the simplicity, feel, thin finish, neck and the weight of the instrument, prefer it to Juniors infact; the physical size (it's cheapo thin) of the guitar make it bark a bit and it even hints at some of the honk you'd expect to hear on a semi-hollow.

You guys like pictures, huh? Here's my axe!



The board's rosewood, by the way.

Anyway, I like the guitar so much I bought another one last year (twin pups) and it resonated differently - kinda scooped sounding like light flat-picking on an acoustic. You could hear that the two guitars sounded different through an amp. Both sound like Melody Makers, absolutely, but much the same? I wouldn't have said so.

I'll take your tone test when I get a chance, man, but a fatter version of a Melody Maker (a Les Paul Junior) does sound quite different. You can hear that extra meat - The Melody Maker is brighter and thinner (sonically!); try them both for yourself if you haven't already.
I'll hold my hand's up and say I've never heard both with the exact same pickups but c'mon man, don't go putting it ALL down to that!
I have heard mine with three different pickups and I can always hear the character I love it for no matter what (the original bespoke ceramic single-coil, an alnico V Bareknuckle Blackdog and the alnico II Duncan Phatcat).

Okely dokely: so as requested, some photies.

First, trem blocking. This was my diagram of the block dimensions recommended by Fender's Albert Garcia on page two of this thread. You understand, I'm not telling anyone this is how they have to do it, just offering it as an option:



So first up, here is my '57RI blocked using a piece of ash cut to that shape:



By comparison, here is Gotoh's top of the line "vintage" spec trem, blocked with the same wedge shaped piece. This is a body cavity routed by... me. So it is possible that it is not millimetre perfect Fender spec - and that's where the wedge shaped block might be very helpful (actually, my cavity is spot on Fender spec, but you take the point ):



People love the word "versatile" on this Forum. So here is my 2005 Am Std Strat with its pre-upgrade old-style block, with its diagonal rear face. The Albert Garcia wood block is ideal for this job and fits it like a glove, albeit shoved a little further down into the cavity. (And no I won't be replacing that trem block, thank you very much.):



And just to be anally completist about it, here is the Burnt Strat (some will remember) with its Wilkinson VS401 bridge. My favorite bridge in the world - and again the same block works very nicely. Because of the circumstances of this body's construction (if you recall) this cavity is definitely not Fender spec dimensions, but the block adapts easily:



Though of course that wedge shaped bit of wood won't be touching the face of the vintage style trem blocks all the way along their flat back surfaces I promise you those trems are held absolutely rock solid, because of course you can push the wood in to exactly the degree you wish for a perfect fit. If you use the traditional straight-sided wood block you'd better have it tailored to exactly the size of the gap in the cavity, or it won't do such an efficient job. I guess ultimately that's the idea of the wedge shaped version.

Onward.

At the start this thread was about cuts of timber in necks. So not to prove anything but merely as illustration here is my '57RI again, showing the fully flatsawn maple billet its neck is made from. I can happily confirm there are no tuning, tonal or stability issues with this cut whatsoever:



It is mere coincidence that the neck billet on that guitar is exactly flatsawn. The odds are most will be some version of riftsawn (diagonal growth rings on the cross-section), and that is what we find in the overwhelming majority of Fender guitars. For example, my 2005 American Strat (less easy to see the grain here, but you can make it out if you look carefully):



Rift and flatsawn timbers are absolutely the norm in body wood too. Here is my Lite Ash Tele, a three-piece construction:



That one clearly has riftsawn wood getting nearer to flat towards the treble side. Here is my '75RI Jazz Bass:



Again, three pieces, and that middle piece is fully flatsawn. It would have come from right above the middle of the trunk in my earlier diagram:



(Incidentally, nothing says "guitarist who can hardly play the bass" like those covers on my JB, huh? )

An interesting thing to note is that those rift and flatsawn cuts of timber in both those bodies produce grain that lines up very nicely on the fronts and backs of the instruments - which is why they will have been chosen. On the Tele in particular you have to look very closely at the front to discover that it isn't a single piece of wood:



And needless to say, there has been not the slightest sign of warping or any other deficiency in any of those bodies or necks over the years. Those cuts of timber are perfectly stable and excellent in every respect.

In other words: don't worry about the cuts your guitars are made from!

Finally. Just for the hell of it, since I happen to have some of the family assembled in one room, here are some (embarrassingly not all) of my Strats and S-Types, seen together on the Forum for the first time. Say cheese...:



Cheers - C

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Great post again Ceri.

I couldn't quite find a good explanation about it, but what is the functionality of a trem block. So the bridge stays in place?

Hi abzoluut: yes, exactly.

If people don't want to use their bridge for vibrato they often like to fix it in place for greater pitch stability during string bending, and some think for better tonal response. One (not the only) way to do that is with a small block of wood shoved in the back, as seen above - hence the phrase "blocked trem". Eric Clapton was one who did this from long ago and Fender's Signature Clapton Strat comes with a block of wood like that already installed - it's often called the "Clapton blocked trem mod".

Earlier on this thread we veered off from the original topic onto trem blocking and I suggested that wedge shaped piece of wood, following the advice of a Fender employee. ZZDoc pointed out that the Clapton Strat comes with a wood block with straight sides, not wedge shaped. So we've been discussing the relative merits of either approach.

That's how detail obsessive it gets round here! If you like that, jump in and enjoy the water. If you (very reasonably) think it's all utterly insane, run. Run for the hills!

Cheers - C

PS: as it happens, I don't block my trem, nor deck it. The above examples were just done for illustrations. Floating free, is my style!

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Thanks! Btw, I'm absorbing all the info with joy

And the advantage of a blocked trem is that you can revert to float with the correct balance in a matter of seconds. Just take the block out and re-tune, if your trem was set properly before hand.
Non of that silly mucking about with springs.

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No no and no

The wood block in my Clapton is 2 1/4" wide-side to side ( 1/2 " shorter than the mass block) x 1 1/2 '' highx 3/8' thick. The trem claw is set flush agains the front wall of the rout. There are 5 springs in place. The bridge is flat against the top. The mass block is vintage and the wood block sits centered precisely in that gap between the mass block and the back wall of the rout, supported by the small shelf created in the bottom of the rout just aft of the space in which the mass block passes through the top of the guitar. The height of the wood block is about 1mm short of the bottom surface of the mass block. If the block is removed, the bridge will not float. That's the way these guitars are set up. I attribute the wood block not being snug to age and drying out. A newer guitar will have a tighter fit. Somewhere in all of this I recall a photo submitted by Alain.
Oh!...and as an aside...when place back on the guitar, the string holes in the backplate are noted to be directly centered over the stringholes in the mass block.

On the wood issue, picking up on Jeff's observations about the 5 guitars, Ceri's pics, and Niki's observations, be reminded that most of these bodies begin as two or three pieces of unrelated wood glued side to side and then routed. There's total heterogeneity here in terms of source, grain pattern orientation and interfacing, not to mention the finish applied to the body, and all the other acoutrements alluded to,which naturally suggests that one combination might be a magical one-off compared to the rest...i.e the oft touted 'killer guitar''. Though with ash, there might be greater attention paid to getting a prettier grain pattern for the lighter, 'see through' finishes like Natural, Sienna SB, or Aged Cherry.

It's now midnite + 30. Good morning to my mates across the pond. Look for ya'll late Friday. Metro area's got messy morning commute to deal with and ah needs mah shuteyes.
Doc

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"Another day in paradise!"

Why do you, and some others, prefer a floating one? Btw, nice pics. I noticed they all have three springs. Sometimes I see five springs. Any mayor difference there or has it to do with the floating stuff?

'Morning abzoluut: a blocked bridge won't move at all so behaves like a guitar without a trem/vibrato. Alternatively, some people like their bridge "decked" or "flush" to the face of the guitar. That way you can use it to bend notes downward but not up. The third alternative is to have the bridge "floating". That means the spring tension is adjusted so that the back of the bridge is a few mil above the face of the guitar. In turn that means you can not only bend notes downwards but upwards too. "Pull-ups", they are often called.

Strokes for folks.

Regarding springs: however many you have on there the total tension of the springs must equal that of the strings round the front, so the bridge system is like a see-saw held at the point of balance. That adjustment is made in the spring cavity with the two claw screws. Then the more springs you have the more force your hand has to apply to the trem arm to send the system out of balance and make the notes bend.

A two spring setup is very soft and easy to bend but makes the "at rest" position of the bridge very sensitive to going out of tune, during string bending or just touching it whilst palm muting. Five springs makes the whole thing extremely stiff and robust, much less vulnerable to those tuning issues but also much harder work on the hand when you do want to use the vibrato. A lot of people settle on three springs as a nice compromise, but there are no rules.

Cheers - C

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Ceri! Help me out on this. Do I remember a discussion back in the dimly lit past to the effect that the 'vintage' trem springs were larger (heavier gauge wire) than those used with the more 'modern' or thinner, lighter weight, mass blocks?

Another aside....Clapton's '57 Stratocaster carried 5 springs and the block and trem claw set as I described previously. There was no wood block in that guitar's trem rout, but the desired effect was the same. I'm likely to set up my new '57VHR the same way.

The Gilmour is set up with three springs, and two additional springs are provided for the player's preference. I haven't looked at my Deluxe VG, but may do so this weekend. These two guitars are set up to float and will be left as such.

The pesky, nasty, inconvenient snow is ending, and the office is starting to pick up.

More later.

Doc

P.S. That project guitar of yours is so totally awesome. Everytime I see it, I'm blown away. Anyone presently on this thread who has not seen its build should be given the link to its thread. They're entitled to a fuller appreciation of whom they are talking to.

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"Another day in paradise!"

Yeah, there's a guitar "myth-buster" website out there somewhere where a guy hung weights on trem springs to conclusively prove that the silver ones are a different strength to the black ones. But I never can find that website when I need it and I can't remember which way around the answer is. I guess I could run that test myself over the weekend...

It's only a percentage difference though. Minimal significance once the setup is done.

BTW: I'm not going to give in to your repeated hints! It would be far too immodest of me to post a link to my own build threads...

But thank you for the very nice compliments.

Cheers - C

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With vibrato you mean with the tremolo-arm? Or just with you finger on the string? So basically with 5 springs you need more effort to do a vibrato?

By the way, I noticed Mayers Ltd Black 1 has 5 springs, does it have a block too? Can't really tell from the pictures..

They should make a thread: 'ask Ceri'