Niki..

Is that a poster of your ( is it a Beagle ) on your cabinet door

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

A Basset Hound. Red and White.



[EDIT] Must add that's not my dog. I'm sadly Basset'less of late.

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No no and no

Niki! Don't be like that about it, man!

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and perhaps most of all this: "Because I believe my own ears above all else."

I don't want to change anyone's mind or start measuring wave forms to prove a point (even if that conclusively proved they behaved differently, what would that in reality prove anyway?) - I just don't think anyone can claim to have the ultimate answer on this.

Just a few days ago I was talking to an esteemed English luthier about maple laminates and quartersawn necks (I'm in the process of ordering a new CS Strat) - I could tell by the expression on his face he wasn't convinced about my laminate experiences but he assured me that quartersawn necks were the way to go and that he only made guitars that way. He went on to explain how this was for reasons of structural integrity and demonstrated it by grabbing a flatsawn bass off of the wall and shaking it - it wobbled like a stripper! He was also determined to find a flatsawn neck with a certain grain to explain how, in his experience, if that neck were to ever develop a warp, it would be right around that area. Sonically, in his opinion, a quartersawn neck might make the guitar a tad brighter - but that's it.
Now he and Mike Eldred have a mass of experience under their collective belts and yet feasibly could contradict each other on certain aspects along with agreeing on others as being absolute. But why should you or I listen to them regarding such matters when we have a different take on it? We shouldn't, right? Nobody can tell you you're wrong if, as you rightly said, you believe your own ears above all else. So do I, Niki.

I'm ordering a flatsawn with maple flat-lam, by the way.

Honestly mate, I'm not being like anything about it. My posts here are very impartial towards anyone. I genuinely seek knowledge for knowledge sake about guitars. So don't get me wrong mate. There wasn't any upset in that post of mine on my behalf. At all. Towards anyone. Ever.

That is not my agenda mate.

It's one of the many contributing factors to why I think and question the way I do.

BTW this message ususally follows the one explaining my why's and wherefores. I ought just shut up about em or keep a copy on word that I can copy and paste.

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No no and no

Not at all, man - I think you've got a lot of interesting stuff to share and I for one always enjoy your posts. And we can always agree on Marshalls, right?

Yep we can.
And I never get mad about reasonable disagreement. Theres simply no need to get mad over difference of opinion with something like music.
Ok if it was on England's inclusion in the Euro, yep I'm ready for war at the drop of a hat and will be promptly marching down the A1 to Harwich to defend the border.
Not over a bit of wood and metal though.

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No no and no

Ah Yes the Euro
Great idea except for one slight detail between Europe and the USA which seems to have been dismissed. ( say the Pink 400 pd Gorilla in the wings)
A common currency among states governed by independent governments, now there's a few details that needed to be ironed out, some of which may have been minor in times of prosperity, however in light of today's economic musical chair game

I'm not going to go much further on this, just that I can sympathise with the mess created concerning evryone playing by different rules, if not separate chess boards

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

I most certainly believe you. I just wanted to share my opinion and hear about other opinions. As I said earlier, I do hear the difference sometimes (exact same guitars/settings, exact same amps/settings). I am just not convinced it is the fingerboard alone making the difference.

The thing is, I find the difference negligible. It is not like you are playing a gig and then tell the audience: "well guys, I will switch to my maple quartersawn now. I can see you are frowning, you must have expected a brighter sound.."
Listeners do not have the "maple and RW sound" 'on' them when they listen to guitar playing.

Grats on your ordered CS btw. Why did you choose maple if I may ask? I am about to order one myself that is why I am asking all this stuff.

Sound/Tonality Q & A's aside, I'm rebuilding two stratopartsters, both with rosewood neck to complement my other two maple neck (fretboard).
Final fourth coat of clear being applied today. final assembly in hopefully two to three weeks.
Personally I like the feel of rosewood over maple but I also vacillate between the two....
"That would be a great name for a band"

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"C'est parti mon Kiki "

I take your point; here's my experience -

When I was at college and relatively unaware of any preference to either wood I ordered an all white Strat with a maple board (Jimi, anyone?) and I played off and on in my lecturer's band (Mustang Sally, anyone?) I've always had this love for Strats (played Les Pauls mostly) and once the Strat was in my hands, I decided to take it to a gig. The two hours that followed were two of the longest of my life. The guitar sucked. I never would have thought it was just because of the fingerboard, though.

Some time later I bought a gorgeous blueburst Bonnie Raitt signature Strat - maple board.
Same thing.

Some time much later I bought a Tele Deluxe with a maple board... yep.

Slow catching on? Sure, but in my defence I had tried 2 of those guitars in the store before I bought them and thought they were great, it was only once I performed with them and played in a more familiar setting that I could really tell. Once I'd achieved that awareness, I could tell much quicker and I knew exactly what I was listening for and admittedly 'feeling' for.
Another interesting development was my understanding of what was really drawing me to Strats in the first place - the neck pickup with a dirty sound - PURE filth! To this day I think that's the most exciting sound any electric guitar can make and it sounds even better on maple boarded Strats.

Around 1998 my local Fender dealer had a couple of Hendrix Voodoo Strats on his wall - I was intrigued, to say the least, and had a play around with them. They completely changed how I felt about maple boards and gave me that all important neck sound (in spades) but also just kinda felt right. I'm sure there was an unhealthy bias because of the Hendrix connection and there's also the change in string tension due to the reverse headstock to consider but something tells me that the biggest contributing factor was the fact that the maple board was glued on and wasn't a single 1-piece neck like every other Fender I'd played up until that point. Somewhat ironically, it transpired that 68/69 maple Strats would have had round laminated boards which make the guitar sound a little brighter.

And here we are today - I joined here because I wanted a Strat again but this time I want one on my terms and I had to be sure which type of laminate the Voodoo Strat had. (Flat laminate, or 'slab'). Between Mike Eldred's answer and further research I now understand that a slab laminate gives the guitar (among other things) more thump. I think it's easy to understand why, as a rock player, I'd really dig on that.

I'm currently awaiting a quote and I think I should know relatively soon (next 2 weeks or so) but here's what I'm ordering:

Team Built
MODEL - 1969 Stratocaster NOS
COLOR - Gloss Black (Urethane)
BODY - Alder
NECK - Maple, Soft 'V' (Satin Urethane)
FINGERBOARD - FLAT Laminated Maple, 12” Radius
PICKUPS - CS 69s
WIRING - Bridge Volume, Middle and Neck Volume, Master Tone
PICKUP SWITCHING - Standard 5-way

I'm taking a bit of a gamble, for sure, but I'm confident enough about it. Just not confident enough (or rich enough) to have it masterbuilt! I just hope that they can do flat lam teambuilt. Mike didn't seem to think there was any problem!

That's been some of my experiences, man, and to me at least they mean a lot. I've got a similar tale with Les Pauls and ebony fingerboards (not just Customs) and the quick version is I really don't care for ebony fingerboards with dirty sounds, but played cleanly? Beautiful!

What are you after from the Customshop, my friend?

I think it's great when you have such experience to find out what you think is better. I don't have the experience. However, I am not the guy who takes into account opinions of others to decide what's right for me. In this case I thought it could be helpful to a certain extent. I'm not brave enough (also) to order a MB. Need to verify things first.

That's quite a nice Strat you're ordering there I must say. Why do you think they can't do flat-lam, is round-lam the more common way to go? Forgive me for not knowing yet, but lam stands for laminated as in how the fingerboard will appear on your guitar: flat or round? (round would be the radius of your fingerboard?) Correct me if I'm wrong, still learning. Btw, I thought they all came with a nitrocellulose lacquer finish and urethane was like the layer beneath that..

If I understand this matter correctly, wouldn't flat be easier to bar chords with since you only have to push down the strings and not maneuver your finger to fit the radius of you fingerboard? Or is it another 'what feels better for you' thing?

I hope they can seal the deal for you. If Mike Eldred says they can, I wouldn't sweat about it.

Always interesting to read the pros and cons of fingerboards, especially when it come to tone. I have a lot of guitars and many of them are exactly the same except rosewood or maple or maple/maple cap (and ebony). I can feel the difference but have never heard a difference. The resonance of the wood, or how hard the surface is does little with electromagnetics. The string frets-out on the fret and not the wood. I do think there is a lot of mysticism and legends in all this! Anyhow love all flavors of necks and play them all. My main player right now is a Strat with solid Maple....But then again I remember a long thread on this forum about "tone woods" and that can get interesting. A body might play a very insignificant part in sound on an electric guitar, and a neck even to almost nothing. Now with my Martin Guitar, the wood on that baby makes it have a rich tone—but then again, it is acoustic!

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

Hi Abzoluut!

I'm just a little unsure because it's not an option on the order sheet:
http://support.fendercs.com/downloads/2 ... MESTIC.pdf

Yep, a laminated fingerboard is when the fingerboard is glued-on to the neck - as with rosewood.
There are two types Fender has used - flat: when the glue joint is on a flat surface, and round: when the laminate is thinner and curves around the neck at the appropriate radius.

I believe you can choose either a Nitrocellulose OR Polyurethane finish, but not both. However, you could have the neck in poly and the body in nitro if you wanted.

Flat or round, the radius would be whatever you wanted - flat or round refers to the surface where the fingerboard is glued to the neck.

Generally speaking, people prefer a rounder radius (9.5", for example) for playing chords and a flatter radius (12"+) for bending strings. As an option you could have a compound radius profile whereby the headstock-end of the neck is rounder (for chords) and it gradually flattens out towards the bridge-end for (playing lead guitar).
Personally, I like a flatter board from top-to-bottom because I'm most used to playing Les Pauls and they're all pretty much 12".

Hope that's of some use to you, buddy!

By that rationale a Telecaster with a through-neck and humbuckers would sound much the same as a Les Paul. You've got a point; a lot of famous 'Les Paul' solos where played on a Tele with single-coils and a bolt-on neck!
But you can hear a distinct difference when you play one or the other, right?

Are Seymour Duncan only interested in what type of fretboard a guitar has so they can kowtow to their tonally delusional customers? Seymour 'saw me coming'?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/tone-wizard/

All respect to you, man, you have your theories and I have mine but I play some acoustic myself and I too appreciate the significant difference various woods can (and do) have, but I'd be more weirded-out if the same didn't apply to electric guitars. Less so? Perhaps, but that's in the ear's of the player, no?

LOL! Just put in my 2 cents! Ok, I know these kinds of topics go round and round after watching the Forum for years. For sure, when dealing with electromagnetics, the type if pickup you use will effect the sound. But honestly, I have built a lot of guitars and test drive them in my guitar building/recording/editing room. For instance, I built this Tele (3 of them now) which is a 67 Reissue (Some call them Keith Richards models):



When I play it in the neck position it sounds just like some of my Les Pauls. I really can't tell the difference. The type of pickups can create different frequencies and ohm reading which do affect the tone, but the wood very little. I really think that since guitars are very iconic creatures, a lot of sale hype goes into matching pickups with neck and body wood. But the truth is, you can slap a pickup on a piece of plywood (and some guitars are just that) and play it and it sounds good. I have hot rodded several really cheap guitars, junk ones in fact, with high-end pickups and made the guitar sound like most high-end guitars. So the guitar and pickup companies use this mysticism as a sale tactic as it sells guitars. One of my friends just had a custom Strat hand made. Cost him right at $4000. I asked him, Can you really hear the difference on that guitar. He said, "Oh ya, for sure!" I played it, thought it did not play as well as some of my Strat Plus' nor did I really care for the tone because the hand wound "custom" pickups were too thin sounding (because of the magnets and they way they were wound.) But after paying that much money, He heard things I did not hear! LOL!

One time I recorded a Blue solo that had organ, bass and drum accompanying it, which was very expressive. I used a very cheap older MIM Tele that was a top loader with stock cheapy pickups, and the guys that listened to it thought, wow, is that must be one of your high-end guitars, like a Strat or? I took out the Tele and said "this!" They were shocked. It is all a little like Jack White and some of the crazy things he does like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFXeChXfcI Then watching guitar manufacturers and what they say about the guitars they sell, it gets really confusing. One will say, This is a solid & heavy piece of Ash which will cause your guitar to have a lot more resonance and sustain. Then another will say, this is a very light piece of Alder and will cause your guitar to have a lot more resonance and sustain. Which is it? I do know that chambered bodies cause more resonance, but that seems to be more of an acoustic thing like playing a real hollow body electric will feedback and vibrate more than a solid body guitar—thus why the Gibson 335 had a piece of mahogany running down through the center of the body. So more solid is less feedback and less sustain? I have a few really heavy solid guitars that sustain like crazy.

Anyhow people argue this kind of thing for hours. There was a multi-page thread on this forum about all this a while back. Where is that thread anyhow??? Anyone remember? I submit this in good faith that it is just my opinion and not as a dogmatic argument. I respect other people's opinions that differ with mine!

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com