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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:35 pm
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nikininja wrote:
He will probably give you a bone Stratele. They just throw them away, so it is not like he will lose money by giving it to you.

That's right.

I turn these:
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into these:
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Stew-Mac charge $3.30 for a single unshaped bone blank. Bones like that from the butcher are free - and contain dozens of nut blanks!

An option.

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:38 pm
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Like those Horizon socks dude!! 8) :wink:


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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:40 pm
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fhopkins wrote:
Like those Horizon socks dude!! 8) :wink:

Hi Hop! Fashion tips are free. Though I kinda doubt anyone would want to take them... :lol:

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:52 pm
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Now, that is a pair of socks! :D

Andy

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:15 pm
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Mocassins here.

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Andy I have some similar socks. They were sold to me as indestructable socks, some years ago. Their still in one piece too.
I was shopping for camoflage trousers at the time, but couldn't find any.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:23 pm
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Steering us back onto topic, here is a similar entry in the Mike Eldred section of the forum where he shows the actual tools they use to make trem blocks ^^

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48715

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:25 pm
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Nice! 8)

nikininja wrote:
Andy I have some similar socks. They were sold to me as indestructable socks, some years ago. Their still in one piece too.
I was shopping for camoflage trousers at the time, but couldn't find any.

Mine are defiantly not indestructible! I go though a pair each year but mine are cheapy Brighton Market socks.

Patten welded socks are the way to go right? :lol:

Andy

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:25 pm
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HA! I have that absolutely identical pair of moccasins, right down to the "real leather" label. Spooky...

Can't match those socks though. Wow!

Cheers - C

EDIT: oops, sorry Capo for steering us straight back off topic again... :)

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:31 pm
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Ceri wrote:
EDIT: oops, sorry Capo for steering us straight back off topic again... :)

My favourite Hijack yet! :lol:
Capo wrote:
Steering us back onto topic, here is a similar entry in the Mike Eldred section of the forum where he shows the actual tools they use to make trem blocks ^^

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48715

Nice one Capo! A very interesting thread.

Andy

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:35 pm
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Yes, interesting. I see that so far, myself and AdrianJordanMusic both get it.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:30 pm
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No one ever disagreed with that, a fact that was cleared up what, two months ago on a different thread in the lounge section. So don't take the high ground because you haven't been hit with a flurry of posts acknowledging it.

Why you are focusing this subject onto the American Standard is beyond me, completely. Also aside from the spec sheet on the post 2008 American Standard there is still no conclusive proof that any other trem block on Fender America guitars was made from anything less than 1018CRS, is there? Though I'm not naive enough to believe they all were or weren't.
I tried to bring a bit of science into the discussion by weighing the steel and photographing it. I'm suprised there hasn't been more photographic evidence from Callahan defenders. My Mexican upgrade Callahan block certainly weighs nowhere near 291g. Though it is slightly smaller. Also the tensile strength of multiple layers of material was quickly overlooked. If you look into what copper infused steel is, it becomes pretty obvious that it is very similar to a laminate construction. Good enough for Mercedez impact zones, good enough for a strat. Also consider there is only a difference of 0.315 grams between the most and least dense steel types per cubic centimeter. Least dense being 7.715grams, densest being 8.03 grams. per CM3.

Also it in no way justifies the smear campaign Callahan led against Fender, where's his evidence that Fender don't and have never used 1018CRS? Why would someone confident in their product feel the need to resort to such tactics?

Quote:
That guy lies about FMIC,and the CS, and our bridges.


Am I the only one who see's that clear definition within the quote? Not just Mike Eldred focusing on Custom Shop products.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:58 pm
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nikininja, read the next to last post on the link below, it's from Mike. The Am Std has a cast block, not CRS, or laminated. That's all I was really trying to say. Didn't want any bad feelings to go along with it.

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=48715&start=15

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:18 pm
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Wow...I don't know whether to comment on blocks,socks,mocs,or bones...notice I couldn't rhyme that last subject...so I'll just shut up. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm
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To me the Callaham steel-block thing seems a little like snake-oil..even body woods should have little real impact on tone from an actual physics perspective (dodges bullets.)

There's a lot of snake-oil when it comes to the electric guitar industry.

One day I'm going to open a company that sells special tremolo arms and single-ply pickguards and make unverifiable claims about their effects on tone.


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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:13 am
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Heres a very interesting fact. 1018CRS is actually less dense than Stainless steel.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/KarenSutherland.shtml

Taken from that link.

Metal Steel, tool 7.715
Metal Wrought Iron 7.75
Metal Carbon Tool Steel 7.82
Metal Steel, cold-drawn 7.83
Metal Carbon Steel 7.84
Metal Steel, C1020, HR 7.85
Metal Pure Iron 7.86
Metal Soft Steel (0.06% C) 7.87
Metal Stainless Steel, 304 8.03
Metal Stainless 18Cr-8Ni 8.03

(note also that hot rolled steel is denser than cold rolled which in light of the weights we've measured doesn't explain the increase. Cutouts into the block will get us part the way there. When I can accurately measure water displacement by lowering a block into a jug, I will.)
(note2, by measuring water displacement and the weight of the block. I should be able to work out roughly what type of steel is used from the above table)

Shim' theres no bad feeling from this end mate, honestly. That's not my intention nor has ever been. I have a enourmous amount of respect for you. Your knowledge of electronics is fantastic and reading your insights has taught me loads. Particularly the easy to understand writing on capacitors on your website. That should be made sticky on the amp forum and labeled as 'required reading' for anyone interested in anything more than switching the amp on.

I (I suspect like you) hate the non specific word play that we see everywhere these days. Frankly I'm sick of the bullcrap marketing scams, sick to my stomach. Like the way that quote from ME can be read two ways, both meaning opposite things. I also don't like when someone choses to focus on one certain product to the point of ignoring atleast 50% of all sold products. So what about all those other guitars, right back to 86. Artist, California and all those short lived runs? (Blame my high aspergers quotient rating). That is my biggest (and only real) bone of contention with Callaham products. I can see absolutely no excuse, reason or justifiable cause to disparage a company your making money off the back of. It's just not good business practice and ultimately self defeating for one.

So with that in mind I look about, ask a lot of stupid questions to a lot of clever people and generally make a nuisance of myself. In the hope that I will eventually learn some facts (hard cold (maybe rolled) facts).
I'm really not interested in slighting Callaham's products in the slightest. Infact I'll go on record and say that the trem arm/block coupling is the best I've ever seen. A true work of genius, really.
However when I read attacking statements about a perfectly servicable product, I question the motive of the person making the statement. Not the users of the replacement product. If anyone gains any increased pleasure from a product, then who the hell am I to question that? I would have in the past, with age comes understanding and now I realize I'm no one to question pleasures that cause no harm. All I'm really interested in from this site is my enjoyment of the guitar and helping a few folks out the best I can.

Please understand my standpoint from that statement. I'm neither for or against anyone or anything. I try to be neutral, seeking facts, much like yourself. One reason why I won't involve myself too heavily in the debate about the tonal aspects. My common reply is you can get better for cheaper. To my findings thats a truth (not the ultimate truth) based on my opinion. Whether thats worth anything outside my head is for people to judge for themselves. During the course of that, I'll ask awkward questions and post awkward replies. Please don't take it as a personal attack, it's not. It may read that way, but it's not my intent.

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