Here you go Nikininja,

viewtopic.php?t=46898&highlight=

Custom shop blocks and Fender America blocks come off the same machines. The block of my Deluxe, American Standard trem and Custom Classic (same as a AM DLX) trem are all the same aside from the trem arm fitting.

You'll notice by re-reading the statement listed that Mike is refering to FMIC, CustomShop and pre cbs Fender.
I'd like to re-read that thread though to see it all in context. Because I do recall there being some mention of Custom Shop blocks specificaly on it.

I think to accurately judge any so called improvment, one should start by looking to the place of origin of the statement about it improving a guitars sound.

Just saw the link, thanks F.

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No no and no

Note the post about him (Callahan's receptionist I presume) being rude when dealing with customers. I remember a post about that in the lounge. I think it was Ryan wanting a toploading esquire bridge.

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No no and no

No problem Niki. ME has talked about this subject several times in his Ask Mike Eldred forum.

Fender's own description of the Am Std Strat, from their site:

"Copper Infused High Mass 100% Metal Bridge Block"

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0110400700

And ME says:

"Our bridges are still hand made out of CRS 1018 the same material and the same way they were made in the 50's ON THE SAME MACHINES."

?????? He has to be referring to CS, as I'm certain that Fender didn't use copper in their bridge blocks in the 50s. There is only one other alternative explanation, and I will not go there. So, I suppose that the next thing to do would be to ask ME about this "copper infused" stuff? With the animosity expressed for an unnamed individual, I doubt we can get a clear/straightforward answer though.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

I put the stock block back in my AVRI. In my opinion it has better tone. I weighed the stock one and the replacement. They are the same weight. I'm not saying the replacement block isn't a quality block. It is definately a nice high quality block in my opinion. (It's not a Callaham) But in this particular AVRI that I have, the original Fender block gives a more authentic STRAT sound than the replacement. And I say again this is not a Callaham block so I'm not trying to knock Callaham or the guy from the UK either. He makes a nice block.

I carefully compared the sustain of the two when changing the blocks back out. If the replacement has more sustain, it isn't very much. I think the brighter sound of the new one when I first tried it made it seem as if it had more sustain. But after some more comparing, I'm really not sure it has "a lot" more sustain.

These are only my opinions with this one particular Strat. It could be different with others and other players. As I said above, I still intend to get a Callaham an try it in my Am Standard.
I don't know, maybe when a Strat has the kind of nice acoustically loud ring this AVRI has, maybe it can't get much better. I took it to Martin Music in Memphis and the luthier told me "wow you really got hold of a good one". I don't know if he was just blowing smoke up my $@! or not. I'm not a proffessional guitarist. But I can tell the difference acoustically between the AVRI and my Am Standard.

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"Damn Right I Got the Blues"

Shim, what he said is quoted accurately in this thread. As far as animosity goes I'm surprised that FMIC hasn't sued Callaham. Then again that's proved as not being their MO. They'll undoubtedly buy him out in due course, then either make a success of his company or destroy it, as they see fit. Much like they did with GrooveTubes when they got too big.

You've got the statement from the man himself that Fender use 1018CRS. They also seem pretty confident in their product. Other side of the fence, you've a upstart charging well over the odds and lying about Fender's production methods. Some people have commented about rudeness from that company also.

I wonder why Fender representatives are not so negative about other bridge manufacturers? Theres plenty of em out there. Perhaps it's their better business practices that cause them to not incur the wrath of FMIC.

The fact that Fender use copper infused steel on their current Standard trem blocks doesn't mean diddley to anyone aside from people claiming to hear a difference whilst refusing to perform a anywhere near accurate analysis. What exactly is copper infused steel? I'm no metallurgist but as far as I can gather copper infusing of steel components is quite common and used for better heat transfer during casting. It's apparently quite common with stainless steel products.

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Sounds like a good, unbiased view on your blocks performance bshane84, always good to have different opinions. It is a shame that the AVRI has different string spacing that the Am Std, so you can't try your new block in the Am Std. Please post your thoughts on the Callaham if you get one.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Yeah, they can claim all they want, I won't believe that until I hear it. Titanium is much lighter and less dense than brass or steel which = less sustain from a pure physics standpoint. Titanium might have some other tonal influencing properties and I'd like to hear one, but at $400 for an entry fee, I'll stick with the rare exotic metals already found on my strat.

ORC

Yes of course. I will let ya'll know when I get it in. They aren't taking any orders until after the 5th.

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"Damn Right I Got the Blues"

Hi nikininja,

The main point that I hope I'm making, is the new block with copper in it, no matter how we slice it, is not the same block as the originals, and not 1018CRS cold rolled steel, by Fenders own product release announcement. It seems that you don't want to believe that, oh well, no biggie. If even just this one block is not cold rolled 1018CRS, then the statement that ME made can not be applicable to at least the Am Std Strats, and one could reasonably conclude that there are other Fender blocks also not made of the same steel. I read the product news right here on Fender's site when the 08 models came out, and they clearly stated that the new block was cast copper infused. They even had an explanation of why copper was used to fill the "voids" that their other cast blocks had. You can not infuse copper into a cold rolled steel block, you pour it into a cast. I can not find the article now, maybe it was removed or archived, but it was here and not on some other site. Even if it were possible that the copper was somehow infused into the 1018CRS, then it would no longer be 1018CRS, right?

Why would ME be so upset by some claim from a block maker? If the claims made by Callaham were untrue, then they would be slanderous and Fender could sue them out of business, or at least get a "cease and desist" order against them. I predict that this will not happen. As is often the case, the inferences drawn from ME's statements here, are being carried way too far. I expect not to get a warm reception, but I guess that I'll have to post the question about the copper infused blocks on ask ME. <sigh>

Edit:
You got this part right:
"...but as far as I can gather copper infusing of steel components is quite common and used for better heat transfer during casting."

Yes, casting, as in cast block.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

What you are failing to mention though, that you did mention on a similar thread when it suited you, is that all steel is cast. Seem's a lot of people forget that. Surely no one is naive enough to believe these blocks are hacked out of lumps of steel. Btw if you want to look at numbers compare Type 45 steel/copper composites high tensile strength 222 kgf/mm2. Compared with 1018CRS 8.19G/CM3. Cos lets face it, steel is a alloy, made of more than one material. 1018 CRS is made up of iron, carbon, phosphorus, sulphur and manganese. So any inferring towards it's purity is infact rubbish. Unless of course you're gullible enough to believe his claim that a company that are open enough to admit using a composite, would omit the detail on other products.

NONSENSE REMOVED

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No no and no

Never meant to question your smarts, I know that you're smart, sorry if my post sounded like that. Just that I've said that the 08 Am Std block was cast copper infused, and you didn't acknowledge that it was, when we talked about this same subject before (I believe your block was different?).

All steel is not cast, some is indeed cold hard chunks of steel that are compressed to size between two or more big rollers, and then machined (CRS, cold rolled steel). The cast steel refers to pouring the mixture of hot molten metal into a preformed mold, cooled, open the mold and then machine. So, all of the blocks will be machined at some point to get the final flat surfaces, and holes necessary to mate up to the other parts, regardless of how the steel was formed. I have worked in many steel foundries and machine shops in my time in industrial service, I've seen more than a few molds made, broken and remade. It is pretty neat to see a piece of foam or other material, with sand packed around it, have molten metal poured in and molded into a shape. It was also equally enjoying to watch a piece of cold hard steel being smashed into the proper size by a couple of rollers. I know a little bit about steel, at least how it's made and formed. A steel foundry, was very nearly the last industrial plant that I ever worked in.

You're right though, it is all about the tone, and we each have our preferences.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Ok Shimmilou, sorry I misunderstood your intent. All behind us eh?

So how would you say the superior tensile strength of copper/steel composite over 1018 affects performance on a trem block. What difference would that make to the mass of the block?
Also why would Fender state such information about their best selling time served guitar. If there were no reason for it?
I ask because I've just done a little weighing of my American Deluxe block and my pre08 American Standard block.
I think it would be a good comparison if someone with a post 08 American Standard and someone with a Callaham replacement block would do the same. Anyway it's super geeky and Ceri is going to go giddy with delight when he sees it, I'm sure.

Heres the Standard's block weighing in at 213gramms



Heres the Deluxe's weighing in at 205gramms



What could possibly be causing that weight difference of 8 gramms. Surely it can't all be down to the different arm fitting.

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Ha!! Yes Niki, Ceri and I will enjoy this discussion!!


BTW bshane, I appreciate your honesty in your post here on this thread.