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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:22 am
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papaboom wrote:
One day I'm going to open a company that sells special tremolo arms and single-ply pickguards and make unverifiable claims about their effects on tone.



Now there's a statement I fully appreciate the humour of. However PapaBoom, you can measure the sonic differences of modifications. Ok you need a lot of expensive equipment to do it and need to make a machine that ensures the string is plucked with the same amount of force every time. But it's entirely possible.
(I don't see many companies offering sonic evaluation data sheets on their products, or showing off the lab's where tests are conducted.) :lol:

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:18 am
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papaboom wrote:
One day I'm going to open a company that sells special tremolo arms and single-ply pickguards and make unverifiable claims about their effects on tone.

Rebelsoul wrote:
Wow...I don't know whether to comment on blocks,socks,mocs,or bones...notice I couldn't rhyme that last subject...so I'll just shut up. :mrgreen:

Bone Tone! Great name for a snake oil guitar parts company. Let's get started immediately with those unverifiable claims! :D (Any resemblance to real companies living or dead is purely coincidental - etc.)

Cheers - C

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:34 am
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If only I had red slippers I'd have matching guitar, dressing gown and footwear.

I think I need to get down the shops. Loafing about wear for a enhanced guitar experience.

Maybe photo's soon.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:59 am
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I'm taking this idea seriously, so here are some ideas:

Coated Strings-brand name to be determined-The oil of the Chinese water snake has long been known to carry benefits to ease joint pain. Bone Tone Inc. has now combined this remedy into guitar strings, and the results cannot be denied. The snake oil prevents corrosion and also helps ease the pain on you fingertips, making you play longer and faster. Studies show there is no negative effects on tone, in fact statistics show an improvement in resonance due to the unique molecular structure of snake oil.

Hamster Wound Guitar Pickups-Hamtiquities™-Hand Wound guitar strings have long been known for a warmer, butterier, tastier tone than their machine wound counterparts due to scatter-winding. Bone Tone Inc. now improves this concept with our new Hamtiquities™ pickups. Wound by hamster, these pickups have even more personality due to what we call Xtreme Scatter Winding, or XSW for short. Just give the pups a try and start riding on the wheels to tonal bliss.

Overdrive Pedal-The Tube Sonic-Boomer™-The Tube Screamer has long been known to be a great OD pedal. Well now it's even greater, all thanks to Bone Tone Inc. Send us your Tube Screamer and we'll mod it for more sustain and greater detail in the notes by encasing it in aircraft grade high density stainless steel that is God-hammered by hail over Oklahoma. It also has a tube in it, though not in the circuit it still provides the extra mojo needed for the modern guitarist.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:03 am
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Thank you nikininja, the feeling/respect is mutual. If you do any of those tests, I would be very interested in your findings, although it may be difficult to get the specific volume of each block, considering the holes, but I'm sure that you can do it. BTW, didn't you just love Ceri's nuts? I did. (Freud would have a field day with that) :lol:

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:16 am
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Bone tone Inc. Special nut sauce, I am pretty sure you could make that with the Chinese water snake oil also... :P

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:33 am
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nikininja, I just received a correspondence from John at amp-fix.com (you provided a link in a previous post), and he told me about installing an interesting device in one of his customers amps, called a "Bias Engine". A programmable tube biasing device that I hadn't heard of. Now we have three sides to the bias technique debate, fixed, adjustable, and programmable/regulated. I thought that it was cool, and at least interesting. (we're already off topic by a mile, so I thought that I'd throw in a biasing post, since I don't have any cool socks. lol ) :)

http://tubesync.co.uk/tubesync-bias-engine-v4-382.htm

Edit:
Stringjunkie, looks like you thought of the nut sauce after reading my post, so I want 10% of the profits, and have it named after me! "Lou's Nut Sauce" :lol:

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Last edited by shimmilou on Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:36 am
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Ceri's patented Snake Nuts Sauce - Take care of your guitar's nuts with Ceri's patented Snake Nuts™ Sauce. Nobody knows nuts like Ceri and this product shows that. Made with 100% Chinese Water Snake Oil among other things, this sauce with keep those pesky strings from getting caught in your nuts and causing problems. When combined with our amazing Snake Oil Coated guitar strings, you will achieve much greater tuning stability and fingertip relief. Another great product from Bone Tone Inc., helping to give you the tone you'll feel in your bones.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:39 am
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Ok, since we are on the roll...

Bone Tone inc.

Special guitar paint SoLive tm that is designed for a modern guitarist in mind.
Other paint manufacturers claim that their paint make the wood breathe, our has a pulse too using XiHrtBEAT nano technology. If your guitar is painted red it will have the most MOJO and you will play faster than Malmdudesteen from the day one.


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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:10 am
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Displacement of water will measure the exact size of the block as accurately as the measuring jug is marked. However this jug is a bit archaic, good enough for milk.
Example; Put 100ml of water into the jug, drop the block in, see how high the watermark rises. 1 milliltre of water will fill 1 cubic centimeter of space. So it will give the cubic dimension of the block. So if the watermark rises to 130mL you know you've got 30 cubic centimeters of steel in there too. I may even splash out on some food colouring to make it easy to read.

Just one of the many advantages of the metric system, thankyou Brussels.

Anyway the thing took ooooh 5 minutes to do, so I'll just put it on this post.

1st I measured out 420 ml3 of water. Added a splash of ink too.

Image

Sorry for the poor quality. Luckily I'm not at all interested in photography so it won't keep me awake at night. Unlike tremblocks.

Anyways, dunk the block. Allow the air to escape out the string tunnels and trembar holes.

Image

This takes up up to 450ml as near as I can measure. If someone has a more accurate jug, please redo this experiment.
Well that equates to a difference of around 30ml or 30cm3
Remember we weighed the block at 205g.

Image

So with a bit of maths 205/30 so we end up with a cubic centimeter weight of 6.85 gramms.

Please be aware with the above I did find it difficult to accurately measure the water out. Those measurements could easily be 2/3ml either way. The jug measures in 25ml increments. I think it's safe to assume were in the lower end of the 7g per CM3 range.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:30 am
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shimmilou wrote:
nikininja, I just received a correspondence from John at amp-fix.com (you provided a link in a previous post), and he told me about installing an interesting device in one of his customers amps, called a "Bias Engine". A programmable tube biasing device that I hadn't heard of. Now we have three sides to the bias technique debate, fixed, adjustable, and programmable/regulated. I thought that it was cool, and at least interesting. (we're already off topic by a mile, so I thought that I'd throw in a biasing post, since I don't have any cool socks. lol ) :)

http://tubesync.co.uk/tubesync-bias-engine-v4-382.htm

Edit:
Stringjunkie, looks like you thought of the nut sauce after reading my post, so I want 10% of the profits, and have it named after me! "Lou's Nut Sauce" :lol:


WOW, now that does look well worth getting the wallet out for. Imagine that, being able to easily install any valves you like.
I could put 6l6's in my jcm with no hassle at all.
Can you say fat bottom end instead of sky high high mid's?
(why does that sentence make me think of ladies?)
Tube manufacturers are going to love that. Every guitarist will have 3 sets of valves for each amp.
Imagine that being able to divide your amp into a 6L6 and a KT88 section, flab and wood.
Now for the ignorance bit,
would it cope with running 6V6's on a 100watt head? Max plate voltage being 350v and most 100watt marshalls giving a plate voltage of between 420-500v? Would it cope with that by regulating the voltage? If so that would make a great attenuator. Run a 100watt head on 4 6V6's knocking out a max of what 28watts?
If so could you use yellowjackets with it to run El84's?

I could ditch a amp and make more room for another build!

No one wants to be called at 4:30pm on a Friday. I'll be calling Monday, their a UK company.

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:54 am
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Cool stuff! I can't figure where that number fits on the metals density chart (6.85 gm/cubic cm), it's lower than the chart goes. If you use the weight that I measured, 241 grams, that would put the number closer to 8 gm/cubic cm, which would indicate something close to stainless steel. What do you figure the material is, based on your experiment?

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:15 am
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Quote:
.yadda yadda....


To make things even better, I've had dealings with one of their Service/Installation points. Not bad dealings either, a very helpfull chap indeed.


I suspect my measurements to not be accurate enough to ascertain precisely what is used. I need some chemistry measuring equipment rather than kitchen stuff. I would estimate that weight to be closer to 7g/cm3 given the inacurracy of my jug. Really I need something clear that will measure in 1ml increments, to be accurate. Rather than guessing and estimating to the nearest line.
Well atleast it solved how to measure the cubic weight of the trem block, even if I can't accurately do it.

Your trem being roughly 8gramms per CM3 does put it firmly in the stainless steel end of things. But that is your post 08 AM STD block isn't it. Now I've never seen one, are they contoured for extra trem movement? We can dismiss the cutout differences of the trem arm fitting, they are negligable. A lack of contour would make a difference of maybe 1 cm3 if it's shaped like a vintage block.
Also I suspect that the block has a copper core rather than being a mix of steel and copper. Or is built up of laminated sheets of both. So we'd need to determine how much copper was used and factor that into the weight difference. Copper being heavier than brass apparently at 8.9g per cm3, opposed to brass's 8.5g/cm3.
http://www.conexmetals.com/brass_copper_weight_calculation_chart.htm

Thats me with sleepness nights for the next fortnight. I think I need a drink. This is turning me into a Metal Head :lol:

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:33 am
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Yeah, my block is an 08 and has the contour/bevel allowing the extra movement. I'm going to see if I can get some accurate measuring devices in the Physics department and try this myself. I might just take a couple of blocks up there and experiment with their equipment, and pick some of those PHD brains on this, but it might be awhile for that, I hate getting out in the snow unless i have to. Thanks, I've learned some things from this. :) BTW, I agree with you about the ease of the metric system to a point. I just can't get an accurate measurement for 1/3 of a meter, there are no .3333333333333 (infinity) marks on my metric rule, so I'll stick with our system (1/3 yard = exactly 1 foot, 1/3 of a foot exactly 4 inches, etc). :lol:

Edit:
Oh yeah, I guess that the copper in the block would mess with our findings, and would only tell us the density and not the actual material since it is mixed. I'll skip any testing of that one any further. I'll compare two blocks, supposedly the same material, and see what results that I get. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: I put a solid steel Block in and I'm not sure about it.
Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:46 am
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Yep the metric system definitely has it's failings. Like nothing in nature being adhering to metric measurements.
I suppose it's just easier maths that makes it seem easier to use.

I wonder if xray could determine the makeup of that 08 block?

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