Great, I hope FMIC will start competing with Egnator, Soldano, and others for a well made tube amp for cheap. Fender all ready has their Vintage Model-fied, tube amps made in China. Perhaps Fender will trust Chinese to make a chassis mounted tube socket, hand wired tube amp like the VHT special 6. Or even a hand wired Princeton Reverb that we can all afford.

Hansen sorry I didn't pay enough attention to your first post on the subject. Well you don't have to worry about US import laws do you.

By all means buy one, but be very carefull. If I were you I'd demand to play as many as possible.
Heres my friends Chinese LP



Great looking guitar and not too bad a player for a £300 guitar. However on handling it, you know it's a guitar shaped thing and not a guitar. There are several absolutely stupid mistakes on it. One side of the headstock, the tuners are perfectly straight. On the other side they look like a staircase. The pickup cavities are too small by far, leading the pickups to sit at funny angles. Theres a big problem with either the truss rod or the neck wood. The thing seems to randomly change shape at it's own discretion. Adjusting the truss rod leads to changes happening a day later. I'm one of those fuddy duddies who thinks hours to let a neck settle after adjustment is daft.

It's a decent looker though. Sadly you can tell it was made by someone who had a guitar put on the wall infront of em and was told 'copy that'. They don't actually know what it does or what XXX component is for.

Now I'll agree with you that China is going ballistic in their ever raising standards. Infact some great guitars are built out there. Ok you may not find a fender, but you'll find a Wilkinson for sale in HongKong. At worst take a trip to Taiwan or something, do your shopping in a more westerly nation.
You do have options.

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No no and no

Hey Ninja, Thanks for your input. There are a lot of things that can go wrong for sure. Problem is that same type of things could happen with a 3,000RMB guitar, especially electric. The tuning machines immediately caught my eye as a potential source of annoyance. You've mentioned other things I hadn't thought about.

I like this particular guitar. It just feels right, looks great [Said the same thing about my x, bless her].

If I do go ahead with the purchase, I'll try to keep y'all posted on how it turns out.

Hi again Hansen: back in the old days I distinctly remember Fender and all other main brands being easily available in Hong Kong at slightly lower than Western prices. Can't believe that will have changed - and I'm slightly surprised if legit stuff isn't available in Shanghai too.

On the other hand, I also very well remember the bewildering array of fake stuff across the harbour on Nathan Road in Tsim Sha Tsui too! Genuine Bolex watch, anyone?

Cheers - C

Ceri wrote



Bloke at work has a "genuine" Rolex (spelt right lol) which he got for a tenner!

Suppose 1 reason Rolex dont do much about it is any sane peep isnt going to think its actually a real Rolex, mind you the guy at work truly beleives hes going to win the lottery EVERY week so .. . . . . ..

Doesn't matter what country everyone's capable of putting out a good product if they work hard enough at it even India.

As for fakes/counterfeits their intent is to deceive and do just enough of a job at making you believe its the real thing to make their money. Unless they tell you straight up its a fake of course then its your fault for buying one.

I've come across countless cases of people lying in such matters so you can't take peoples word for anything especially in the China/Asia as it still goes on largely due to corruption and little police involvement.

I don't know what the wholesale cost is, but you would have to be extremely lucky for any dealer anywhere in the world to sell a new American Standard Stratocaster for under $800 USD. The places that sell guitars for around that price are the ones you have to be weary of. A $100 guitar is a no brainer.

Shockwarrior,
Excellent point. The high end stuff is where the problems really are.The chance of getting an "authentic" Fender in China, at any price, is miniscule.

It is also entiely possible, almost certain, that high end counterfeits have made their way onto the world market.

Take a place like Guitar Center, for example. A local manager or even a floor rep, gets a line on some high quality counterfeits, does some swapping around. He now has several factory Fenders under his bed at home. The store where he works is selling counterfeits and only one person knows.

The Chinese [not all, of course] are rip off artists. Years back, they severely damaged the rare coin market by introducing counterfeit antique coins through an international show in Hong Kong. Experts in the field were confused.

I'd be careful about high end collectible guitars as well. If there's a lot of money involved and a product that can be faked, good chance that there are people scheming.

I can afford to lose 800 RMB on a fake Fender. 8,000 or 80,000 is another matter.

Here in Brazil its easy to find in our 'ebay' like site those "Chinese Fenders", of course they´re not legit in any way. I´ve played one of those one time and I can tell you it doesnt even get closer to a korean squier. Total pirate junk.


http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-161646443-fender-chinesa-_JM

They think they got the Richie Sambora´s neck.... oh boy...

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-161373937-guitarra-fender-chinesa-_JM

This is the chinese attempt of a David Gilmour strat, pathetic...

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-164376311-guitarra-fender-chinesa-captadores-hot-noiseless-zera-_JM

Joao, Those pictures look pretty much like what I'm seeing first hand in China. In your experience, did you find that they were reliable at all? Could I get about 6 months of practice in before it falls apart? Right now, I'm not concerned about sound quality, just reliabilty. I want a guitar to practice on, not work on.

Buying any guitar or even taking a free one, if it wont stay tuned, for example, what's the use? Life is aggravating enough, at times without paying for trouble.

Thanks for the pics.

Seriously, get the cheapest of the Squier series, and you´d be better off then with one of those chinese replicas. To me those replicas were barely unplayable, If I close my eyes I could swear I was holding a piece of dry wood with some strings on it. Then you hold a ORIGINAL Fender, you´ll always know whats in your hands. Thats called Craftmanship. And those Chinese Pirates dont have that.
Just to be really clear, THOSE ARE NOT ORIGINAL FENDERS.
If you´re starting out, buy the real thing and you´ll be inspirated by it to play day after day. If you buy one of those fakes, you wont last a week and will be bored for the lack of instrument you´ve got.

Hansen

With that Chinese LP I mentioned earlier. You can't get 6 minutes play time out of it before the neck wood bows and sends you a mile out of tune.

Avoid it mate please. Go to HongKong, Shanghai or Taiwan and get a Squier. Failing that take a day out to Kuala Lumpur theres a couple of decent shops out there that I have a smidggen of experience with (bought strings, had a nose around).

http://theguitarstore.net/


http://www.bentleymusic.com/contact.aspx

Pretty sure their a authorized dealer.

http://www.bentleymusic.com/ProductsInfo.aspx?Sku=19677

That stuff is available out there.

Just think by buying pirated gear, you're condoning and supporting piracy. Morally grey at best.

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No no and no

o even to Japan and you will find a treasure trove @ Ishibashi

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Continuing my "buying a Strat in China" saga:

I visited another shop today. The lady plainly stated that the "Made in Mexico" strat was a fake. She said I could expect about 3 years use before the neck would warp so bad it would need replacing. Most Strats in China are made around Guangzhou in the south of the country. That's bad news because of the humidity there. The wood is going to have moisture which will evaporate out in a dryer climate and cause warping. Also cause shrinkage and joint separation, cracking, etc. in a drier climate like much of the USA or other parts of China.

They had an old strat there they would let go for ~600RMB. That's less than $100.

It didn't appear to be used, just had been sitting around for a long while. It had "Made in Mexico" on it. Not sure about Strats because I haven't studied the genuine ones enough to know if it was actually a counterfeit or just a rip off job. Counterfeit stuff here is made with the intention of deceiving even knowledgable people. Knock off stuff takes numerous stylistic elements and designs, logos, etc. but is easily detectable by a knowledgable person.

Rolex watches, for example often appear in China with significantly different stylistic elements than real ones but still have the Rolex name.

The shop lady advised me to not buy the fake strat in the shop but instead purchase another guitar from them that was more expensive but would last longer.

Still thinking about it.

Hi again Hansen: once again, why don't you pop over to Hong Kong for legit stuff? I remember several music shops there that definitely stocked the real thing. One of them was Tom Lee Music:

http://www.tomleemusic.com.hk/products_ ... ubcatID=21

They seem to have shops in both Wan Chai and Kowloon - as well as elsewhere in China and also Canada. I haven't visited for a few years but they were an entirely legit operation when I was there.

Alternatively. Take Blertles' advice and buy an excellent and well priced Japanese, Mexican or American guitar from Ishibashi:

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/eng/

Numerous people on this Forum all over the world have had good experiences buying from them. Take a look.

Good suggestions. A real Fender can be yours if you want it.

BTW:

This isn't really correct. Plenty of faking going on in Guangzhou, but plenty of very good quality legit stuff being made there too. For example, as previously mentioned Yamaha have their own plant there and turn out very good middle market instruments without any problems with humidity.

And for top drawer stuff being made in China check out:

http://www.matthewguitar.com/story.php

China ain't only about copyright piracy...

Cheers - C

Hi Ceri,

Why don't I just pop over to HK? Well, If you lived in, say in St. Louis, Missouri, would you just "pop over" to Los Angeles or SF to buy a guitar?

As for the humidity issues, probably not a problem in legitimate factories where quality control is carefully managed and wood is dried to meet specific indicators determined by master craftsmen. I would expect name brand makers there to carefully monitor things like that. The quality of the finishes would also be designed to meet certain specifications which would limit water and air exchange in the wood. Adhesive quality would also be an issue. Dynamic wood and bad glue is bad news.

The average ripoff artist guitar maker isn't going to care about moisture content of wood or quality of finish. They simply want to throw something together that they can sell for a profit. Profit, in this context, means using the lowest quality materials and selling at the highest price. That means bad wood, glue, finish, metal parts, and electronics.

No question about the capability of the Chinese in the proper context. I'm sure Matthew makes a good guitar in HK; however, he is not typical in any sense of the word. Most of the good stuff I own, purchased in the States, was made in China. Slight chance of getting something of similar quality in this part of China. Matthew himself decried the lack of appreciation for guitars in China, another indicator that the people making them are in it simply for money, which doesn't translate into quality.

Since it appears that the biggest shop in town lied to me about a Shanghai Fender factory and the honest girl in another shop plainly stated she was offering me a "fake" Mexican strat, I need to consider the downside.

I was discussing classic Triumph motorcycles with an enthusiast. He asked me if I wanted to tinker with a bike or ride one. "Ride one," said I. "Don't buy a Triumph," he responded.

I'm interested in a guitar for practice and play, eventually, not dinking around. That's why I "popped" in here, for information.