With the Verheyen method you have to get the trem balanced. Get that Ami11 to drop down to as near a perfect Abmi11 as possible. That takes months of tweaking the trem claw.

Personaly I think the lifting of the inside pivot post screws to be a nonsense. The synchronised trem isn't a 2 point, doesn't have the same knife edge to pivot post groove setup. Trying to make it as such is a waste of time, it doesn't acheive anything.
The trem you posted a picture of that looks like the whole thing is floating, is likely a 2 point trem. Discount it, it could be any of a million systems. The picture isn't good enough to tell which.

I also think a lot of your troubles are down to the way you're winding onto the tuners. Try 2 turns at most, make sure those strings are really stretched in before trying any trem action at all. Dont tune down.

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No no and no

A six screw Fender vintage style bridge that is floated, will always have tuning problems, no matter what magical tricks you might hear of, they do not work. There is no true pivot on the six screws for the bridge plate to pivot on, so the plate won't come back to the same position when going up as it does when going down. Many players have accepted that fact and have learned to push the trem arm down to return to pitch while playing. The tricks with the screws at different heights attempts to compensate for the lack of pivot by screwing the outside two screws flush with the top of the bridge plate to limit the drift, but it still doesn't work. The number of string windings, and lubing the nut, won't help the bridge at all. The bridge is the problem. The 2 screw bridge really does have a true pivot point. If you have the 2 screw bridge, THEN the number of string windings and nut lube will be important. The 2 screw bridge is better than the 6 screw bridge for tuning stabilty.

You had it right the first time, put the bridge back flush with the body, tighten the trem claw screws to hold it there while bending, and be happy. And get a double-locking system for stay-in-tune-whammy action.

I think that many times when people say that their guitar "stays in tune"with a floated 6 screw bridge, they might mean that the strings are in tune with each other, but no doubt that all will be sharp or flat just a little, which might only be noticeable using a tuner. It would be amazing to see a Strat that had strings and parts that could ignore the effect of temperature and humidity changes in order to stay in tune when traveling.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

So everyone who has a synchronised trem that stays in tune is wrong? Despite several videos proving the point being available to the public and a plethora of users making the claim. And the sychronised trem plate doesn't have it's pivot point shaped into the bottom of the plate?

Deck the trem at your peril, that is the quickest way to tuning issues. You need a zero point on any trem system that the string tension can increase or decrease from.

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No no and no

Hi nikininja,

Didn't mean to step on any toes. I am not saying that everyone is wrong exactly, just that they may be exaggerating a tad about just how "in tune" that they really are. I just don't believe that anyone has a floated Fender six screw bridge that will stay in tune with whammy use. I have heard that claim so many times, and then picked up their Strat and used the whammy, it would go out of tune every time. If Jimi Hendrix couldn't keep his Strats in tune, how do others do it? Answer, they don't, they just learn to compensate, or switch guitars after every song. The term "playably in tune" would apply, but it isn't really in tune, just close. I may be too picky about it, but to me a guitar that is close is not in tune. I used to believe that a roller nut and locking tuners would do the trick, but still, slightly sharp or slightly flat is the result when whammying (at best). With the same tuners and nut, simply changing to a two point trem is a big improvement in tuning stability.

I think what you are describing is the bevel on the front bottom edge of the bridge plate. It isn't a pivot point, it is a bevel to allow the plate to clear the body when whammying. If it was even supposed to pivot there, you wouldn't need a knife edge on the bridge plate. The way that the plate slides up and down on the screws would require a smooth edge instead of a knife edge. A metal plate "pivoting" on the body would not be very accurate, wouldn't you say (it would really be sliding on the body, not pivoting). If you study the 6 screw bridge closely, I think you may realize that it cannot function accurately enough to keep the guitar in tune. Otherwise, there would be no need for a 2 point trem if not for it's better tuning stability. I don't know if the double-locking system would have survived were it not for it's phenomenal tuning stability.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

That bevel does act as a fulcrum though so is a pivot point. The tremplate pivots on it, as it was meant to do.



Well all I can tell you is that my strats don't go out of tune. Their checked to Istrobosoft, TB Tuner, and my own ear. I don't get any variation on Istrobe' after bar use. Neither do plenty of other peoples. Whether that is because I subconciously compensate for that, I doubt. No one else seems to be able to send em out either.

Edit for better picture

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No no and no

That's cool. We might also have different ideas of tremolo use, note that I call it "whammy", maybe I'm just too hard on 'em. I wonder why Leo called it a "tremolo"?

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Now I´m a believer!
Thanks Carl Verheyen and Nikininja !



Step 1 - New D´ddario EXL110 Strings, restringed it with 1 or 2 winds on the post only, all strings coming down from the post, using the 2 string trees from the highway. lubbed the trees with WD-40 oil.



Step 2 - Waxed dental floss on the nut, rubbed it so I can see actually wax coming out from the slots, removed excess. (Thanks nikininja for that)

Step 3 - Disassembled and reassembled all the tremolo mechanism. With it floating and no tension from the arm, unscrewed all 6 screws, screwed back the 2 outside screws for a pivot effect and left the other 4 screws about 1.2mm from the plate. ( If I do not pivot on the 2 outside screws, when I upwards the arm the bridge plate would come up and didnt return to its original position, so yes, it pivots on the 2 outside screws)




Step 4 - 2 hours finding the right position for the claw inclination, as it must pushes 80% of the force from the lower strings, and 20% of the force for the higher strings. (If I unscrew 1 turn the higher strings claw screw, all the force is thrown to the screw holding the lower strings). Thats the perfect point I got on.



Step 5 - Archieved on the G string a minor 3rd, on the B string a full step, on the high E string a half step and on the D string at the 5th fret a full step when pushing the arm full up. Just like Carl said it would. Ajusted string height with nickel coin method. Setted the intonation just right dead on 440.

Step 5 - WD-40 oil on all contacts for the strings, bridge contacts, string trees. Tuned the guitar up ONCE. 440Hz dead on.

NOW I CAN WHAMMY UP, DOWN LIKE CRAZY, BEND UP, DOUBLE STOP BENDS, EVEN DIVE-BOMB !!!! WHEN I RETURN, AND I DO NOT HAVE TO CLUNK ANYMORE FOR IT TO RETURN, ALWAYS DEAD ON 440HZ ALL STRINGS!! UNBELIAVEBLE!

Thats proof that a vintage tremolo, even the from a Highway One Stratocaster is fully competent on doing its job, when you setup the guitar with care. I was skeptical and frustrated a few days ago about this, lost a set of elixir strings learning to setup it properly, but that was worth it, I´ll never have a flushed tremolo again! And the floating trem, now I can see, really helps with your bends, absorving much tension to the springs, bending now is sooo smooth, and always return to dead on 440 !!! AWESOME!



Now I´m very happy with my Highway!

Thankyou nikininja once again for your support!!!

Yeah you're probably right mate. With age I am becoming more sedate in my vibrato bar usage.

I've often wondered the same thing about the misnaming of the vibrato. I always put it down to Fender wanting to get away from Bigsby. Who did correctly name his system. Paul Bigsby apparently went a bit crazy when he first saw the strat headstock. Perhaps Leo thought 'I've nicked the headstock design, I better not call the whammy the same thing too'.

You say vibrato, I say tremolo. You say tomato, I say tomayto.

Lets call the whole thing 'the bar'.


Joakorb
Glad you got to a point of acceptable happiness. Be carefull with that WD40 mate. I've used it for a few things on my guitars over the years and suffered no bad effects. However people in the know say it can damage finish/wood if it penetrates into it. I've no reason to doubt em.
Not saying don't use it, just saying be carefull. Don't let it get in the truss adjuster hole, it could get straight onto unprotected wood in the neck.

Lovely burst BTW. I don't like the 3 tone sunbursts much, but that one is changing my opinion.

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No no and no

Oh boy, I felt in love for my Highway all over again!

I was a bit worried about one of the springs actually touching the side of the cavity, but looking detailed on carl´s setup I think his is touching it also. Pretty much similar dont you think ? Maybe that spring resonating against the wood cavity is a MOJO ADDON PLUS.

Carl Verheyen ✆ to me

Joao,

Thanks for the info about the spring touching. I have 9 strats and just one of them has a spring that touches.Since the rest don't I believe it's just an occasional build situation from the factory. It shouldn't be a problem as far as I can tell!

All the best and good luck with your music,
Carl

On Nov 25, 2010, at 8:30 AM, João Korb wrote:

> Hello Carl,
>
> It´s a honor to have in contact with you. I´m from Brazil, and I always have used my strats blocked cause I really dunno how to setup the tremolo correctly.
> Thanks to you, now my vintage tremolo from my highway one stratocaster is a killer! Dead on! No tuning issues, I can go back and forth with the trem vigorously, big bends and yet no tuning issues.
> I just wanted to mention 2 things I have perceived with the method. The lower strings side of the claw, the spring actually touches the side of the trem cavity, I looked detailed on your youtube vid, and I can guess yours touches it too. No problems with that right ? Maybe adds some "mojo" to its resonation.
> And the other thing is that the A string actually goes a whole step and a half when I push the bar all the way up. The others strings D, G, B and E are behaving exactly as you intended with your method. As D freted at 5th goes a whole step, G a whole and a half, B a whole and E half. Should I concern about that A string ?
>
> http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=46809
>
> Theres the link to Fender Lounge Forums where I´ve fought for about 3 days over the setup, until I´ve came where I am now. Its PERFECT! Except for the A I mentioned a half step further than it should by your method.
>
> Thanks a million Carl!
>
> Best regards from Brazil,
> Joao Korb

Wow that's really cool that Mr Verheyen took the time to respond.

A measure of the man for sure.

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No no and no

Yeah hes indeed a good man.

What do you think about the touching spring and the A string half step further ? Should I try to mess with it again ? I´m ansious to get it as perfect as I can!

Still I´m already sooo happy about that I can use the tremolo and bends with no tunning issues!

If it's all operating properly, I wouldn't worry about the spring.

As for the A string, I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean that it is pulling up more than it should, that could be down to a number of things. String height being the main suspect. I would not worry about it, providing it is not causing a problem.

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No no and no

Exactly, when I pull up the A it goes half step further than Carls method intended to do. Oh well I try fine tuning it tonight, at the least of all IVE LEARNED SO MUCH ALREADY!

I´ve put some thought about what you said, and that makes sense indeed. The higher the saddle lifts the string, the wider the angle it will take when pushing the trem arm all the way up, I´ll try to lower it and see how it goes.

All my friends are skeptical about vintage trems.. For them its trash and doesnt work at all, but they just wait for my dive bomb strat demonstration... I´ll put their ibanez with floyds to completly utter shame for a 699 stock strat! VENGEANCE IS SWEET!