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Post subject: 1976 Fender Strat & 1973 Gibson Les paul Custom update..
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:24 am
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G'day everybody 8)

I urgently need quick responses from experienced members of this forum that are seriously in the know of their Fender/Gibson instruments.

Yesterday I became aware of a friend of mine at work who is battling his third bout with Cancer :( Our workplace is holding a quiz night for him and is requesting donations of items to auction at this event to raise funds for a trip for him.

I am going to donate a Squier Strat that I don't use, so today after work I headed to a local Guitar Shop to buy new strings for the Squier Strat.

Upon my entry into the store I saw my contact leaning over what appeared to be at first glance, a Gibson LP Copy. I assumed that because this shop is not a Fender/Gibson Dealer.

As I got closer to the Guitar I saw the headstock read Gibson with Les Paul CUSTOM scribed into the bell plate.

I didn't even think about asking for a set of strings at this time because the Gibbo caught my eye.

As I was drewling we got to talking about this axe and my contact said to me;

" Hey mate, have a look at this one, It is a 1970 - 1972 LP CUSTOM. "

I said, " Are you doing a set up for someone ? "

He said, " I am cleaning the fretboard and giving it a set up to hang on the wall, I am selling it for someone. "

I said; " How much ? "

he said; " $2000 AUD "

My jaw dropped.....with suprise as to why so cheap.

I then began to tell him that I was looking for my unicorn, a vintage
Fender Strat.

He smiled at me and said, you are kidding me.

He told his son to go to the back of the store and grab the old Strat.

When he said that, My heart started racing even more thinking it was a 50's or 60's Strat... non ri.

I saw a sqare case being carried out and when the lad opened the case, I started to become a bit emotional.

Finally I have found a place that had old classics that I have a spot in my heart for.

Ok the Strat was not a 50's or 60's Strat but it is wonderful.

Here is my dilema, I have the choice to buy one of these baby's as both are being put up on the wall for sale at the shop, but I am seeking your advice as to which one would be the best to buy.

Gibson LP CUSTOM 1970 - 1972 $2000 AUD serial number 184691

Fender 3 tone sunburst Stratocaster 1976 $1500 AUD serial numb 711834

My contact at the Store said that the owner has not played them since his last gig in the early 80's, and both players guitars have up until now,
been sitting at his mothers house in the country, in a shed.

I have 24 hrs to make a decision so here they are.

Thanks for any expert help!!!

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Last edited by kineman karma on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:14 am
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Hey kineman, greetings to Aus! Image

Strat looks like a lot of work to me. If you're up for reviving a 70's Strat, go for it! 8)

Now, what PUs are those? Is there a coil-splitter involved or is that pot cap just pulled slightly off? And what about playability? Is the neck ok? It's that dreaded 3-point...

The Gibby looks alright to me. But I am no expert.

Good luck, mate! May the Force be with you. Image

:D

-Nutter

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:25 am
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The_Nutter wrote:
Hey kineman, greetings to Aus! Image

Strat looks like a lot of work to me. If you're up for reviving a 70's Strat, go for it! 8)

Now, what PUs are those? Is there a coil-splitter involved or is that pot cap just pulled slightly off? And what about playability? Is the neck ok? It's that dreaded 3-point...

The Gibby looks alright to me. But I am no expert.

Good luck, mate! May the Force be with you. Image

:D

-Nutter


Hey Nutter :lol:

Mate thanks for your greetings and reply.

The strat believe it or not beside needing a total pickguard swap and a set up was actually fairly playable. The neck was fine... frets would need to be done soon though.

I think you are referring to the Strat with the pot I was wondering if it was a push pull pot but when I pushed and pulled it stayed as is.

I am not sure if it is the 3 bolt neck.

What I find interesting is the tremolo system and the brass nut etc... where these a special run at that time with the kahler locking trem or is this a later addition... "Mod"

Yes the Gibby looks great... I couldn't play it at the time because it was not strung up... I will get a chance tomorrow.

Mate I have heaps of Strats, 1 Gibson SG 61RI but no Gibson LP.. I put the Gibby serial into GPD and it returns two dates.... 1964 or 1970 to 1972...hmmmm I think I will need the force if nobody help me here.. :wink:


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:53 am
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Hi Mate! :)

Well this looks like three bolts to me:

Image

I was wondering about the possibility of it being "modded" myself. Maybe some other folks on here can share some light. Looks strongly modded to me, but for a '76 Strat... who knows? If you like it and it plays, what else could one desire? ;-)

You could of course tell your contact to keep an eye open for a "real" vintage axe if that's what you originally wanted, and leave both guitars there. Now you know he's into this kind of stuff, you know? Might be useful.

I hope you did buy that set of strings for the Squier! ;-)

Take care!

-Nutter


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:02 am
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The_Nutter wrote:
Hi Mate! :)

Well this looks like three bolts to me:

Image

I was wondering about the possibility of it being "modded" myself. Maybe some other folks on here can share some light. Looks strongly modded to me, but for a '76 Strat... who knows? If you like it and it plays, what else could one desire? ;-)

You could of course tell your contact to keep an eye open for a "real" vintage axe if that's what you originally wanted, and leave both guitars there. Now you know he's into this kind of stuff, you know? Might be useful.

I hope you did buy that set of strings for the Squier! ;-)

Take care!

-Nutter


Ok, Yes I have an onset of fatigue now... three bolt neck... how dumb of me...

Mate the more I look at these pics and the video I took of the two today... I am really liking the mojo of the Gibson LP... They are both modded in some form.

I am still stumped as to whether the trem locking system is apart of the original build of the strat.

I reckon that the Tail peice of the Gibby looks vintage as well..

Someone please help, I will be walking into the shop tomorrow morning buying one of these rockers...

someone educate me please... :P


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:11 am
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:lol: Ah don't worry, could happen to anyone. ;-)

Well I've been looking at those string trees. Could they be a clue as to whether the locking system was an add-on? Why would anyone need string trees when the strings are locked tight? But I'm again pointing out I'm no expert.

Anyway, PLAY the Gib first. So far I like her better, but both need TLC so you can never tell, once the Strat is revived there could be some serious mojo in her!

I'm 60 to 40 for the gibson - but it's not my choice to make, so don't listen to me! Image

I'm awaiting the results with great anticipation!

Image

-Nutter


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:37 am
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Of course it's your decision but I'd go with the LP myself.

Buy the strat next month! :lol:
-T

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:53 am
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tyronne wrote:
Of course it's your decision but I'd go with the LP myself.

Buy the strat next month! :lol:
-T


Hey T,

Yeah the LP is looking pretty good at the moment.

I am bloody curious about the tail peice and why it has a brass nut on the neck as well.

I have been surfing the net all over trying to find a matching LP with these matching hardware peices, it has been draining on the old :roll: eyes...

Today when I took off the tail peice and looked underneath, it was a Gibson branded peice.

Still keeping an open mind for the Strat though...pending further info fourthcoming.

ohhh Nutter mate, yes I did buy those strings for the Donated Squier... :P It's bloody amazing you know.... I never thought a packet of Strings would costs me $2000 AUD..

Cheers Guy's.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:11 am
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Okay, first off, I am by no means as schooled as many on this forum on determining value of vintage instruments. Also, I am a self described STRAT FREAK!!! I love 'em, can't get enough of them and each one is so different yet oddly familiar at the same time - moreso than any other guitar IMHO...

Anyway, with that out of the way, that Gibby looks very VERY attractive to me! Just looks like it has all kinds of Mojo, whereas the Strat seems more cut up in a way. I think you could find a better example of a 70s Strat to fulfill your desires, but I think you would have a more difficult time locating a vintage LP for the same cash with the same... oh I don't even know what to say beyond mojo! Man, I could take that LP as is and keep it that way and be thrilled!! The Strat on the otherhand would need lots of attention to get it back to where I would be happy with it, AND DID I MENTION I LOVE STRATS? My 2cents.. Good luck!! Can't wait to see what you decide!!


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:31 am
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Hi kineman karma: for a second I was confused about the very low prices on both guitars - till I saw the photos. OK, I'm sure they are both real and the dilapidated condition and extensive mods on both instruments explain the prices. Fair enough.

The bridge systems on both guitars are mods beyond the slightest doubt. So are the nuts (at least I don't think that LP came with a brass nut, but I stand to be corrected). I'm sure the tuners on the Gibson are upgrades too, which will presumably have involved drilling new screw holes. And of course the mini-switches on the Gib are user mods; coil splits, I presume.

On both guitars it is going to be impossible to return them to stock, given that both will involve filling screw holes and making good. That could be done well, but not quite invisibly.

On the other hand, if you like the mods and wear on both instruments and merely want to clean them up and maybe put some more authentic pickups back in - well, that's much more do-able. In that case you just have to choose between a Les Paul Custom and a three-bolt big-headstock Strat.

For me that's a no-brainer. I always love a Paul with a bound headstock! But all tastes are valid.

Look: too much choice is better than too little, right? 8)

Good luck - C


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:42 am
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Since they've both been through heavy modifications, I'd go with the Gibson if I couldn't have both. The Gibson in this case is the most structurally sound. Of course I will never buy a guitar with the intention of it just being a show & tell piece. They both need some work and will be exceptional sounding instruments. The Strat will need a LOT of work on the hardware. The LP looks to be ready to play.


NBG


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:09 am
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Just a few casual observations:

The LP has a Gibson TP-6 tailpiece. These fine tuning tailpieces were not OEM on LP Customs for this particular year LP. The brass nut is not OEM. The bridge is an old Schaller; the OEM would have been an ABR-1. The neck pickup is a DiMarzio PAF, wired to a phase switch; the bridge pickup is OEM, wired for a coil cut. The rest of the electronics are OEM.

The Strat 3 bolt is legit. NO Strat back in that era however came OEM with a Kahler anything or a brass nut. FYI: The Kahler is not mounted correctly/evenly and if you look, you can see that neck has done some serious shifting around in its mating body pocket. I cannot tell from the pictures but it appears that the frets may have been replaced too. You will also notice that the bullet truss rod has been replaced with a Kahler adapter due to the locking nut. The neck pickup appears to be a Bill Lawrence, the middle appears to be OEM and the bridge pickup appears to have a spun around OEM so that it would line up better with the Duncan Hot-Rails.

Both guitars are pretty 'tired' and it would cost mega-bucks to have either of them restored. FWIW, the don't look like they'd play much better unless restored either.

Lastly, there is marginal if any collector's value to either one as essentially, they are both ruined. Consequently, I'd pass on either/both rather quickly.

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:16 am
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Hmmmmm ...

Those are well used guitars, just by the photo's they are in need of a complete overhaul.
But, if you are willing to spend the time and effort combined with much patience, I think either would be a good choice.

I myself would gravitate towards the Les Paul as it seems to be less abused.

I had a 59 Les paul Custom fretless wonder, black, 2pups from 75 to 93.
Anyway, I have never seen that tail/bridge setup as original, this Les Paul is extensively modded.
Looking in the " Les Paul Legacy book 1968 to 2009, on page 68,78, there is a photo of that particular tail piece on a LPC. As well as a photo of Frank Zappa playing this similar model on page 121.

Those Shaller tuners are not standard, Gibson used either Kluson's or Grover, if you look at the rearview photo of the headstock, just above the E and G tuner you see a dark spot, where the original tuner screw holes were filled in. From the front of the head stock, there are compression rings around the tuner posts washers (tell tale clue that those tuners are not original and were overly tightened when installed).
If they did use Shaller's ( which Gibson did, at times) the tuners would have the Gibson logo and the tuner knobs would be V shaped.

The coil switches are definitely not standard either my guess is that this guitar was ordered from Gibson with custom options and further modified at a later time by it's owner.
Check at the 14th fret on up and see if the frets are bottomed out meaning that the neck near the body/neck joint has warped.
If this is the case ( common problem with les-pauls) than that will require removal of the frets and shaving the fretboard and reinstalling frets. An expensive repair and one that only an expert in Gibson repairs can accomplish.

I would bargain for either and offer less than asked as both guitars need extensive rehab to be brought back to a functional state.
Vintage is great but if a guitar is barely playable I don't see the point.
As far as the Paul, I would replace the tuners to appropriate ones, as well as go back to a standard bridge tail piece, Iv'e always disliked the fine tuners on a tail piece, if the tuneomatic bridge is located correctly and the tuners don't slip, then there is no need for that tailpiece it is just overkill.
Case in point is that that tail piece was not very popular considering once it becomes corroded from sweat the fine tune mechanisms are useless.

But if you can, grab both, offer $2,200 to $2,500 for both, tops.
I would seriously haggle on these guitars because of their condition..

Good Luck and let us know.

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Last edited by 53magnatone on Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:18 am
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They are both heavily modded, but hey they look like they've attained the mojo associated with thousands of bar gigs over the years. These were some pretty typical mods for working guitars in the late 70s/early 80s.

The LP has swapped pickups - Gibson pickups weren't tappable (plus they hadn't had double cream bobbins since the PAFs of the 50s - and a real PAF would be worth more than what they want for the entire guitar). The tuners appear to be swapped because it looks like there are other holes on the headstock. Gibson did eventually use Schaller tuners, but not until later in the 70s and into the early 1980s (pre-Henry J's purchase of the company) and they had different buttons and typically (but not always) were branded "Gibson". The bridge could be an aftermarket - it looks like the Nashville TOM but I believe those were used later than that guitar would have been made. The fine-tuning tailpiece is also aftermarket; they didn't come out until circa 1979 and were only standard on a couple of odd Les Paul models, not the LP Custom. I believe both pieces were made by Schaller for Gibson so these could also be branded "Schaller" instead of "Gibson" as aftermarket items. The brass nut is also aftermarket. Again, this is pretty typical of the mods a working musician would do to a "late model" Les Paul in that era. The bridge is pretty crudded up but these can be replaced. 53magnatone mentions Frank Zappa - it looks like the owner of this guitar was trying to get something like the circa 1979-1981 LP Custom Frank was using at that time.

Same with the Strat - lots of mods here. The 4-pickup arrangement is kind of odd - that isn't a bridge humbucker, it is 2 single-coil sized pickups sitting right next to each other. At minimum the neck and bridge pickups have been changed - the neck is a Bill Lawrence and the bridge is some type of rail pickup. The middle pickup is possibly stock, and I have no idea what that 3rd pickup that is right above the rail is - it might also be an original with the cover removed. Since this one has the S/N on the neck plate it is possible that the black pickguard is aftermarket, but this one could also be one of those transition models with a black pickguard and white covers/knobs. I had always thought that that "tuxedo" look started when Fender switched the S/N to the headstock but I could be wrong about that transition date. The Kahler is definitely an 80s mod - that model bridge didn't even come out until the middle 1980s (somewhere between 1985 and 1987 I think). You may have problems finding spare parts for the Kahler and might have to remove it. Of course the good think is that these didn't require any routing so you could restore it to a Fender vintage trem. Again, aside from the wierd 4-pickup arrangement it just looks like a real road worn Strat with some reasonable post-EVH mods.

Both will need a lot of work and a good cleaning; play them both and snag the one that speaks to you the most.


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Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:19 am
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The Strat if you spent a bit more you could get far better condition.
The Gibson if in better condition with the original pickups and tuners would be a keeper.

Problem is both guitars are in bad condition and are not collectors grade instruments, they have been played heavily.

I wouldn't get either. There is a reason they are going cheap.

Ceri wrote:
The bridge systems on both guitars are mods beyond the slightest doubt.


That is a Gibson TP-6 Tail piece

Image


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