I have a newer mim and a friend is going to do some custom art work on it but is worried finding something that will adhere to the glossy finish has anyone had any experience with this ?

Hi Hittjake, welcome to the Forum.

You're MIM will have a polyester finish on it, which is a plastic based lacquer. You need to do two things.

The first is to prepare the surface to give a bit of a "tooth" for new paint to adhere to. That simply involves sanding it over with something around P600 wet-and-dry paper till you have an even, matte appearance. From that point on you must not touch it with your fingers: even hands washed seconds earlier will impart oils from the skin that interfere with paint adhesion. Buy some thin surgical type rubber gloves, available cheaply from the supermarket or pharmacy. The slightly looser designed ones are easier to take on and off several times than the tight medical ones. During the entire painting process don't handle the guitar without the gloves on.

The second thing is to use compatible materials that won't react badly with the plastic base of the MIM's lacquer. This is not so hard as it sounds: that lacquer is well cured and stabilised so you don't have to use the identical material, just something in the ballpark. This can include anything broadly described as polyester, polyurethane, acrylic or similar. That means anything from artist's acrylic paint to automotive acrylic lacquers from the auto parts shop.

Frankly, given that the MIM's polyester is completely cured you could even get away with using nitrocellulose as a carrier medium - but I wouldn't. Stick within the plastic spectrum.

What you really can't use are oil based paints, let alone anything with waxes in, so stay well away from those.

If you care to tell us a bit more about your project we can possibly help further. Are you painting pictures, graphics or single color layouts? Will you be working with brushes, an airbrush or a spray gun? What facilities do you have?

Anyhow. Good luck - and show us pictures as you go along, why not? We love that stuff!

Cheers - C

Hi Hittjake,

Yes, what Ceri said. I have used lacquer over the poly finish, and it works well. Even the Fender factory lacquer finishes have poly underneath, so, at least that will work.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

Thanks appreciate the help should I do a clear coat after?

Yes. If you sand your body to a matte look like Ceri said, put on your artwork, then put on a clear coat over the whole body, you can get the gloss finish back. There is gloss or satin finish clear lacquers, or polyurethanes, both in spray cans available at Loews or other stores. You can also get tinted lacquer from Guitar Reranch or other places, for an aged look. Lots of possibilities.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.

I recently hand painted graphics on a Warmoth body, which is a thin skin Urethane (they use poly base coats). Some of what I had to do was a bit of trial and error as I had no experience with the mixed mediums in this particular combination. Added to that I wanted to have a clear coat added over the graphics to completely smooth out any brush strokes and give it a factory appearance.

Ceri is on the money on body prep. I used gray Scotchbrite pads as I wanted to reduce the amount of sanding scratches since we were painting clear over the finished graphics. If you are going to do the same, scuff the WHOLE body, not just your graphics area. I didn't do this and it created a little more work after it was done to scuff up to and around the graphics. You can see from the photo I have attached below that the graphics were in more than one place.

The clear was going to be Urethane because of the thickness requirements as well as the need to finish the project somewhat sooner than I could wait for Nitro to cure. The end result was a factory smooth finish, albeit thicker.

Contrary to what Ceri advises, (and ultimately though, I will agree) Oil based paints were useable. I had already chosen my colors and not knowing which one was preferable, I went ahead with the advice from my finish painter that it "should" be ok. While it did turn out fine, I know, since I painted it, that the colors changed once we sprayed the clear. It probably was because of the oil based paint reacting with the Urethane clear. Whatever the case, it muted out my golds and silvers and turned my reds into Fiesta red. It was fine with blue and yellow. But to my eyes it changed. To the first time viewer, it looks like it was intended. Also the graphic "melted" a bit, meaning that it was just a tad less sharp than was originally painted. That wasn't so much an issue but could have with a different design. In the end, it only bugged me, because the customer loved it.

But in agreement with Ceri, knowing what I know now, acrylic water based paints are the way to go. Get them at a crafts store and use the water to thin the paint down for flowing lines better. Spend a few more dollars and get good brushes, not the packaged 6 to a bag kind. The colors won't melt and they should stay truer to the artists intentions.

Here are some shots of my project;

Bare body



Graphic laid out under pickguard. Copper shielding added.



Finished Main Graphic




Upper Bout;



Complete body before Clear



After Clear



Hope this helps.

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"You can never have too many guitars."

Hi Chicagoblue and all: only in the spirit of friendly discussion I'll add a bit to what I said about oil based paints. In addition to different types of paint/varnish/lacquer not reacting well with one another there are chemical and mechanical reasons not to use oil paints in this kind of work.

Most paints "cure" when a solvent evaporates. That happens quite slowly with nitrocellulose and as we know if you introduce more solvent at any stage the lacquer "re-activates" - becomes liquid again. This can be both an asset and a hindrance.

When plastic based paints harden they go through a chemical change as they "polymerize". This is an irreversible process, which is why, unlike nitro, plastic guitar finishes (polyester and polyurethane) don't loosen when you put solvent on them. Again, an asset and a hindrance.

Although the binders in oil paint, such as linseed oil, are known as "drying oils" chemically speaking oil paint doesn't in fact dry at all. Nothing evaporates from its surface (putting to one side the use of turpentine or similar): in a process comparable but not the same as plastic based paints there is a chemical change which is irreversible.

However, unlike acrylic and similar paints this process is incredibly slow. Any artist knows that oil paint can take days to become "touch dry", and in fact the hardening continues for weeks, months, and to some degree years. As oil paint hardens it also changes mechanically - it expands and shrinks, depending on what pigments and accelerators are incorporated into it.

All of that is fundamentally bad news if you plan to put any sort of clear coat over the top of it. In the art world people usually wait many months before varnishing paintings to let as much as possible of the movement of the paint film take place first. And then they varnish with compatible oil based varnishes which compliment the flexibility of the paint beneath and which themselves take months to harden. That's OK with paintings because you don't need to handle their sufaces the way you do with an instrument.

Frankly, the last thing in the world you want on a guitar is an oil based varnish. (Not to be confused with the oil finish AndyBigHair and others use on guitars - Danish and Tung oil are a different kind of thing again: they go onto raw wood and you would never use them over paint.)

All of that said, you could probably get away with using oil paint in very small areas, such as we see on the front of Chicagoblue's guitar (above). That's because the volume of paint is simply quite low, so chemical and mechanical issues are minimised and the clear coat over the top can just about maintain it's integrity as a descrete film layer. Had the whole of that guitar's front been painted with oil colors and then clear coated with urethane I strongly suspect we'd already be seeing issues with it, such as cracking and perhaps even peeling of the urethane.

For all of these reasons - avoid oil paint on guitars!!! After all, the proper alternatives are so easily available.

Long, long post. Away from the Forum this is kinda my core activity - can you tell?

BTW: Chicagoblue, I love your artwork. Very Hendrixy - but privately between you and me, I like yours better! So no sacrificing this one with lighter fluid, please!

Cheers - C

Thanks Ceri. I was going for the Hendrix vibe on that one as the buyer originally wanted a Monterey, but wanted something unique that would be his and his alone. Even though he eventually bought one of those from me as well, this design allows him to perform with something that no one else has. Plus there was a small 17 embedded into the design to commemorate his new CD. So it had a bit of personal appeal. I just put on an old pair of bellbottoms and lit some incense and went for it. No headband or hallucinogenic drugs though. There may have been a few Leinenkugel's (we're very near Wisconsin) or Blue Moon's. (no fruit, that's a man law)

Well the next time I travel into the unknown, I'll be sure to run some of these ideas through here first. I should have thought of that first, as I read from page one, your rebuild of Niki's strat, which was loaded with great learning tools. And here again, more to be learned. Thanks.

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"You can never have too many guitars."