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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:34 am
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The_Nutter wrote:
Martian wrote:
Don't forget the bandying about of pot 'K' values. She might interpret these as kilo weights of weed. (Clearly not any better of a joke but keeping within the vein.)


Ah, you and I know we can do better than that, we're just saving the good ones for a different occasion... We've been raised on Python's & Co., in order to stay human we need a joke of questionable quality once in a while...

:)

Agree on the pots. 500 for your output of the PUs seems ok. 8)


No argument!

Yea, I figure 500K should still do quite nicely any way.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:41 am
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Howdy Martian!

I have to say, I'm lov'in all this wiring talk going on!

Now then, this dual switch business. Three different tone circuits... Bloody great idea! Can't say I've seen that one done before! The more I think about it the more I appreciate its design. Considering your only adding one extra switch, your getting a huge return as far as tonal options go. 50 points to you Sir! Of course I'm not at all surprised that you came up with it. That's what your giant oversized Martian-like cranium is for right? :lol:

What are your thoughts on the visual ascetics? Those 3 way blade switches aren't small. This is something I often struggle with. How to get all the sounds I want without making the guitar look like Darth Vader's bathroom?

Anyhoo, I'm very much enjoying this thread!

:D

Andy

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:50 am
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I wonder if any of you guys have any experience of this.

http://www.award-session.com/BluesTone4.html

Lot of wunga for a switch. Can't help but be fascinated by it though.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:48 pm
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What are your thoughts on the visual ascetics? Those 3 way blade switches aren't small. This is something I often struggle with. How to get all the sounds I want without making the guitar look like Darth Vader's bathroom?


The X-man has already built Lord Vader's guitar. Remember that awesome black strat he was trying to make up his mind about the fret board for :?: 8)

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:01 pm
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Martian wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
This is how my friend from Sweden, Goran, did his seven sound wiring :

http://myfolder.se/myspace/?m=6

We do some online collabs and jams and it sounds really good!


Actually, the above can be achieved with a 'normal' 5 way switch and a push/pull pot where there would be no redundancies.


Yes I hear that a lot, simply because people do not understand the schematics.

My goals with this design was:

- Well defined tone control positions.
If using a simple on/off switch for neck or bridge pup you get your tone controls paralleled in some positions. My design lets you assign your two tone controls to any position. I choose to user the upper tone for 1, 2 and 3 position and the lower for 4 and 5 position.

- Intact 1, 3 and 5 positions.
The single pup positions is never changed. I can access a single pup position regardless of the push/pull switch position. Only the 2 and 4 position is exchanged for the "all-pup" and "neck-bridge" combinations respectively.

/Goran

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:34 pm
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Andybighair wrote:
Howdy Martian!

I have to say, I'm lov'in all this wiring talk going on!

Now then, this dual switch business. Three different tone circuits... Bloody great idea! Can't say I've seen that one done before! The more I think about it the more I appreciate its design. Considering your only adding one extra switch, your getting a huge return as far as tonal options go. 50 points to you Sir! Of course I'm not at all surprised that you came up with it. That's what your giant oversized Martian-like cranium is for right? :lol:

What are your thoughts on the visual ascetics? Those 3 way blade switches aren't small. This is something I often struggle with. How to get all the sounds I want without making the guitar look like Darth Vader's bathroom?

Anyhoo, I'm very much enjoying this thread!

:D

Andy


Andy,

I'm glad you're enjoying it all. I have fun just talking about it all.

IMO, there's a difference between what is an easy, functional device and then there's all the 'boutique' type stuff which is more trouble than its worth. What I mean by this is take say, an average light switch for example. It has been around for a long, long time now and yet the basic design and size have change very little. Why? Because it is a perfectly functional and convenient device, above all, it is ergonomic. To make it ridiculously small or cleverly shaped in the name of ascetics impedes its use and most likely, it will break sooner than later any way. Now, equate this to guitar parts: We have the two 'biggies' - The Gibson and the Fender type pickup selector switches. Yea, every so often a rotary version comes out but they never catch on because they can't be used, "on the fly"; same as mini-switches, push pots, etc. One has to manually 'zero-in' on them to change them because they either can't whack it like the aforementioned Gibson and Fender switches or in the case of push/pull pots, absently grab and push or pull on the pot shaft without the pot unintentionally rotating to some extent. Once again, I say, there is no point in trying to reinvent the wheel. So, we must strategically place that familiar looking switch ergonomically and aesthetically where even the most particular of player will realize and say, "Yes, I can see logic of what is to be gained here and like how it is achieved."

Oftentimes too, the same sounds desired can be achieved through already established means. For example, take the old reliable, two humbucker guitar. Only recently have the pickups come "calibrated" where the bridge is more powerful than the neck. Sidestepping a "calibrated" one, consider how many players cannot not tolerate the neck pickup being too loud and 'farty' in comparison to the 'anemic' and weak sounding bridge pickup. So, out come the pickups, in goes the boutique jobs, SPDT, DPDT switches, pan pots, etc. Ironically, if they learned to work with what they had in there in the first place, they may very well get satisfaction. For example, if the neck pickup is too loud, simply lower the volume until it blends with the bridge. Too farty? Reset the amp so it isn't and back off on that bridge pickup's tone pot. Many people forget they are there and never tried using them in the first place. Granted, these are very simple and ideal remedies but let's face it, in "guitardom", I guarantee this would work for many.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:45 pm
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On my project I'm just gonna go with the stock Strat 5 way configuration. I like the between pickup 'quack' if I didn't I'd just go 3 position.

If I can get a handful of tones I like out of a guitar I'm happy. I don't like fiddling around trying to remember switching combinations.

I can get all the sounds I can use, and more from the 5 way and the tone control. To me the one advantage the LP has over Fender wiring is the volume control for each pickup, so you can change the balance, or use the pickup selector as a kill switch.

To be honest on my guitars I seldom use more than a couple different settings, going all high tech would be a waste of time and energy, for me.

the only guitar with sophisticated controls I have seen and been intrigued by have been the modeling ones, like the VG. and even those, once you dial in the emulation, the controls are back to the basics.

Mostly even for volume, I just pick harder or softer, rather than reaching for the knobs.

not knocking anyone who can use the extra stuff, but it just trips me up.
(same with pedals, I have friends that have NASA flight control at their feet, but if I use more than a couple, and set very subtly too I might add, my sound and playing fall apart.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:01 pm
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I'm kind of like you 12B. I have a hard time remembering all the positions on the Gilmour. :? I guess I burned too many brain cells in the 60's!! :oops: :wink:


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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:20 pm
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Me too lads. I've gone completely off the million combinations for my own tastes.
Simple vintage wired 3 position switch, same polarity/wind middle pickup, no tone control for the bridge pickup.
Simple beauty in that old wiring scheme.

What I would like a good demonstration of is Martians methods for increasing and decreasing resistance along the track of pots.
I've a few pots that have a lovely taper from 0-8 then a mad leap between 8-10. I'd love to smooth that out. Worst of all it's a comletely random occurance. It doesn't matter where the pot was made. 50% of em seem to be like that.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:23 pm
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Yeah I guess that's just the way the contact works... I have found a sweet spot at around 8, it's hard to nail it while you're on the fly. :?

-Nutter


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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:51 pm
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would this be of any use? never seen one of those before.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/Rotary_Switch_ROTARY

by the way, I find this thread truly

Image

8)

-Nutter


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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:27 pm
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Curious. My analysis suggests that this venture might just find itself at a logical conclusion. Atypical for humans, of course, yet fascinating.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:27 pm
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I have not used that specified rotary switch, but have used some different types. It is true that they can give you a lot of variation in tone. I know I have shown these before on the Forum.

Image Image Image
I also have Gibson L6, what Santana called "The Rainbow" as it had the Bill Lawrence Super Humbuckers and a 6-way rotary switch. What I have found in both cases, a switch that turns like that with the clicks, is very awkward on the fly. As brought out on the thread earlier, sometimes having a lot of choices does not lend well to live playing, but even more when you have to turn your wrist inward to crank over one of these babies. Now for the studio, when one wants to "fine tune" your sound, it can be quite a bit of fun messing with.

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:48 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Me too lads. I've gone completely off the million combinations for my own tastes.
Simple vintage wired 3 position switch, same polarity/wind middle pickup, no tone control for the bridge pickup.
Simple beauty in that old wiring scheme.

What I would like a good demonstration of is Martians methods for increasing and decreasing resistance along the track of pots.
I've a few pots that have a lovely taper from 0-8 then a mad leap between 8-10. I'd love to smooth that out. Worst of all it's a comletely random occurance. It doesn't matter where the pot was made. 50% of em seem to be like that.


Well first one has to understand the how a pot works. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer

"Per our reading", you can surmise that adding more resistive substance would increase the resistance value of the pot. Obviously, there is no practical way to make a 'one-off' with increased, perfectly incremental resistance, post factory.

It can be be reduced easily enough though. Using a scalpel or some kind of razor, you can start scraping away a portion of the outer edge of the band. Of course, this has to be as evenly done as humanly possible in order to keep the taper of the pot from having dips or swells. This is even harder to do with an audio pot as it is designed not in perfect resistance increments (like a linear pot), rather it is designed the way the ear would pick it up.

That's all there is to it.

And just so you can say, "Hey, I just learned a neat trick from mucking through some of Martian's babble!", take a look at this photo:

Image

This is a resistor band. (The capacitor is there to help you better see the angle of the terminals in relation to the resistor band.)

Notice where the probe (also in the photo) has entirely scraped away a portion of the resistor path on the extreme right part of the band, directly below the terminal.

"Why was this done?", you ask.

Well, now you all know how to make a no-load pot from a 'regular' one, regardless of the pot's resistance value!

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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:35 pm
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So would my multimeter give me different resistance values at different points along the resistance band?
If so I suppose I could use that to find exactly where the hump is to more accurately smooth it. Couldn't I?

Thankyou so much for the tip on making no load pots. I see perfectly how it works. The bare area acts as a kind of short across the terminals when the slider hits it. You wouldn't believe how often I'm asked to give people delta tone controls. Something I myself find to be harsh sounding. More so than not having the control there, on my Deluxe.
I'll have to see if this responds any better.

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