After replacing stock 9 gage strings with 10-46 gage, I noticed the bridge was floating way high, and so I elected to increase the trem spring tension sufficiently to tie the bridge all the way down. Also advanced the trem fulcrum screws in a fraction of a turn to accomplish this. Everything ok at this point, except that I noticed excessive fret buzz above fret 5-7 (I should mention that blues & rock are what I play most, so I do tend to lean into the strings a bit while picking.)

Attempting to fix the buzz started a multi-day journey into set-up hell (my first ever), during which time i have made and unmade multiple adjustments to everything except the saddle intonation screws (no need) and the pickups. Adjustments have included raising & lowering the saddles, adjusting the truss rod both ways, shimming the neck tilt both ways, adjusting trem spring tension, bridge height; always using the Fender set up guide as a checklist. Gaps have been measured and remeasured using steel rules, feeler gages. On several occasions, I thought I was there, but a day or two later, the buzzing returned, or else reappeared elsewhere on the neck.

After a couple of weeks doing this dance, it occurred to check the straightness of the neck using several straight edges of various lengths (6, 12, & 18 inches). While the 18" edge shows the .01" gap at fret 8, I have observed that the 12" edge shows a gap at center of span only when laid across frets 1-12; when across frets 12-21, the gap all but disappears.

I am thinking that the problem may be a neck that exhibits a compound curve (i.e. concave at top, convex at bottom). How likely is that scenario, vs. some other cause I might have overlooked? When adjusting the truss rod, I have been careful not to force anything, and have not had any "oh no" moments, but nonetheless am know wondering whether it is possible to damage a neck by creating a compound curve? If such curve exists, is fret leveling & recrowning the only recourse, or is the neck likely to relax back to a straight condition on its own if a slack both strings & truss?

I should mention that the guitar was acquired in June this year, and saw a very humid summer. Now the temps and humidity have dropped, the strings are (slightly) heavier, and all the time I used to spend practicing is spent chasing down an increasingly hideous buzzing (A string now buzzes without fretting a note!).

Any experienced suggestions would be sincerely welcome before I lose my mind...

Thanks,

Scott

Hi Scott

First thing to do mate, lose the neck shims. Dont tilt that neck at all. I've a good method of measuring whether a neck needs tilting or not. Here it is.

First off make yourself a notched straightedge. I bought a 38" aluminium rule from a cheapo shop. Cut it down to length and marked each side of each fret. Which I then cut out.

What you need to do is use that to make sure your fretboard (not fret tops, that comes later) is completely straight.

Like so



Then you need to lay your guitar flat on a table top. Shim the rear of the body to make the body parrallel to the tabletop. Theres that neckplate that you need to account for. Personaly I use playing cards to do this, but whatever works. It's vitaly important that the guitar body is absolutely parrallel to the tabletop.

Then measure up from the tabletop to the underside of the neck at the heel. Note the measurement. You should be seeing around 2 and a quarter inches.
repeat that but at the headstock end. You should be seeing the same measurement. But a additional 1/16 of a inch isnt anything to worry about. So if your measuring 2 and 5/16's of a inch, you're ok. Reason being you just put less relief in the truss rod adjustment.
Any more than that you need to add shims. Any less you need to either shim the headstock side of the neck pocket or get creative with a chisel.

Then flip the notched rule over and check your fret tops. Like so



I strongly recommend doing all this with the strings on. Reason being you can follow the line of the string with the rule. To check exactly how the played area of the fret tops is. You can check high E, G and low E to make sure you're not suffering a compound curve. If you are, get the neck replaced under warranty.
Also you can measure between the fretboard and the fret tops with a set of feeler gauges to make sure the fret heights aren't increasing as you go up the neck towards the body. If that is the case you need to either get your frets releveled. Or as a temporary measure shim the neck pocket at the headstock end to compensate. I don't recommend releveling the floor of the neck pocket in that situation.

After you've checked all that and got it right. Use the rule to set your neck relief to .010"-.012" along the fret tops. It is vitally important that you check the curvature/straightness of the neck across the whole of the neck. Not just a section at a time.

Saved you $72 on that stewmac nonsense straightedge. Mine cost me £3.50 and I got a gibson sized straightedge out of it too.

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[quote="nikininja"]Hi Scott

First thing to do mate, lose the neck shims. Dont tilt that neck at all...

Thank you, thank you, and thanks again! This is exactly the kind of detailed advice I was hoping to find here, as I am from the school that if i want to play my guitar, I should also learn to set it up properly. Will let you know how things turn out.

Scott

Scott

You think exactly the same way I do. If I'm doing it, I'm doing it right.

Keep us all in the loop mate, were happy to help.

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Well, a couple weeks have gone by and I have several updates to contribute re: my ongoing set-up learnings with my new Strat.

First off, I followed your suggestions and fashioned myself a fret-jumping (insert proper jargon word here?) straightedge, and after releasing both the string and the truss rod loads was able to determine that the "natural", unloaded condition of my fretboard reads about .01" concave across the 18" length of my gage. Then I adjusted the truss rod untilt the gap read zero at the center of the gage length and verified that the gage was not rocking and also that I could not slip a .002" feeler shim anywhere between the fretboard and the gage along the entire gage length. I made this check along the paths defined by the D string and both E strings, and so conclude that the fretboard is not badly warped and that the truss rod adjustment is capable of adjusting the neck without introducing a compound curve into the neck.

Neck tilt was checked using the method you outlined, and after several iterations, I decided to leave the micro-tilt fully backed-off (factory setting), as this gave best set up results and also residual neck rise was (just) within the 1/16" limit that you suggested was tolerable.

Re-tensioned the strings and after several more attempts at truss rod adjustment failed to eliminate buzzing, I delivered the patient to a local guitar tech soliciting his help. A few days later, picked up the guitar, and this guy had "found" a set-up that basically duplicated the best condition that I had been able to previously achieve, which eliminates most (but not all) buzzing.

The RUB, however, is that this condition sets the action at .09 -.10", at which height the playability of the instrument is (for me) noticeably degraded. Any and all attempts to lower the action height below this level immediately result in preview of "Buzz Lightyear IV", despite confirmation with feeler gage of .01" Fender nominal neck relief at 8th fret. The buzz occurs at all frets (low and high), and on most strings, except high E and B strings are noticeably quieter than others. Buzzing is always worse when I pick nearer towards the bridge, becoming nearly tolerable (unless I'm picking hard) as I pick further towards the neck.

So having run my first "tour de buzz" on the Strat, learning what I report above, do you (or anyone else reading this) have any next ideas to try that could help me flush this pesky varmint out from under my crawl space?

How does a Strat driver know when to stop worrying and learn to love the Buzz?.

Thanx for hangin in.

Firstly, the fender measurements are only a guideline their not a cast iron rule. Myself I like a good bit of bow in the neck, around .014-.02". 1.6-2mm string height at the 12th fret.

All I can really suggest if the plane of your neck is right in relation to the line of the body, your frets are level, your pickups aren't too high (wholly dependant on playing technique). Is that you look to the bridge saddles. Any grooves cut into the saddles?
Also do you get the same amount of buzz if you ditch the pick and play softly with your thumb?
It could be entirely down to right hand heavy handedness. Try picking very softly with your thumb, if it still buzzes, it's the setup. If not it's likely a combination of technique and setup. It's the one reason a good tech will spend time watching a customer play his guitar before working on it.

Also try sinking your pickups really low, near flush to the guard. There could be a chance that the pickup magnets are pulling the string down to the fret tops.

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[quote="nikininja"]Firstly, the fender measurements are only a guideline their not a cast iron rule. Myself I like a good bit of bow in the neck, around .014-.02". 1.6-2mm string height at the 12th fret.

Ok, if I could get to 1.6- 2mm action, I could happily live with that too. Right now, I feel like my action is higher than it should/could be at 2.2 -2.5 mm.

Should increasing the concavity of the neck bow reduce probability of buzzing at all frets (assuming no other problems exist), or does increased neck bow preferentially suppress buzzing at lower frets while increasing chances of buzzing up the neck? Is that idea a correct way of thinking about the neck bow adjustment process?

Scott

It could be entirely down to right hand heavy handedness.

Yeah, I agree, especially since blues, rock, and country-cowboy stuff is what I have been mostly concentrating on lately.

But, (for what this may be worth) I have also recently played a few other style guitars (Gretsch Electromatic, Epi 335 & 175 clones, a friend's LP clone) with the same merits/demerits present in my technique and yet never had buzzing issues despite lower action settings on all those I have tried. So I have to think that either something is wrong with my set up or else perhaps my neck might have a fret problem that has yet to be diagnosed?

Yesterday, I changed out the bent steel saddles that fender "fell in love with all over again" with the GFS stainless set; made absolutely no difference in buzzing, however does let me adjust saddle height w/o worrying that saddle screws will run out of travel.

Scott

OK Scott, it's not a technique issue. Technique only becomes a issue when setup isn't set as dictated by technique anyway. It's not saddles. How about pickups? Your guitar being a 2010 will have them N3 pickups, yes? I for one have no experience of them. I don't know their magnet strength. I d however have some bareknuckles pickups that use AlNiCo 2 magnets. I do have to keep them well away from the strings or they sound very very spikey. Really clutching at straws with that notion though.

I do find that having a good bit of bow to a neck helps me. I hit strings hard at times. Having more bow in the neck gives the string more room to vibrate. I don't really know if that does help my action, remember I set my action at the 12th fret, not the 17th. It's the centerpoint of the strings talk length so seems to make more sense to set it there to me. Maybe its just another part of my OCD manifesting.

What I would say is that with your guitar being compound radius'd, you cant set for high fret playing and acheive good playability on lower frets. You can't stick to a flatter upper fret radius and have it work for the more curved lower frets. Always the way I found it to be on my Jackson thats about a 12"-20" compound.

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[quote="nikininja"]
I do find that having a good bit of bow to a neck helps me.

I think you hit the kingpin right here, Nikki. Last night, I paid a visit to the shop that sold me my Strat, and they let me play several other examples, including a couple of new American Deluxes (yes, the sunset metallic finish is ALMOST better than (insert your favorite pleasure here)). The bottom line was that ALL of these guitars buzzed to some extent, some worse than mine, some not quite as bad, but none were set up to be truly quiet, despite action heights generally around 3/32", which is where I currently have mine set now. What I did see however is that ALL of the 4 or 5 examples that I investigated exhibited concave neck bow WELL over the .01" recommended by the Fender manual; I guesstimated .015 .02" was the norm.

After supper, adjusted mine to add a bit more bow, let it rest for a couple of hours, and ... voila! worst part of buzzing is now gone, only appearing when I pick certain licks hard and back towards the bridge.

Moral to story: store Fender "set up guide" next to 40 year high school algebra texts. Apparently, not even the guys at Fender use it.

Thank you, Nikki for helping me to educate myself about Strat first-aid, and Rock on!

Scott

Scott

Glad your'e nearly there mate. Fender specs are ok, they are a very generic set of measurements though. They don't suit everyone.
Also guitars move over time and particularly during transport and storage. Fender could set em all up perfectly at the factory. It would be a very different story when they got to the shops though. Thats why dealers are also authorized setup/repair places too. Fender ought to monitor such places more closely. A shop full of badly set up guitars can't be good for sales can it?

It really is a case of finding what suits you. Don't close your mind to seemingly silly ideas. They may work tremendously for you but no others.

Bit like a game of hide ans seek.

Anyways I'm really glad you've got somewhere.

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