From wikipedia

A wolf tone, or simply a "wolf", is produced when a played note matches the natural resonating frequency of the body of a musical instrument, producing a sustaining sympathetic artificial overtone that amplifies and expands the frequencies of the original note, frequently accompanied by an oscillating beating (due to the uneven frequencies between the natural note and artificial overtone) which may be likened to the howling of the animal. A similar phenomenon is the wolf interval, usually between E flat and G sharp, of the various non-circulating temperaments.

To belabour the point again, different materials will have different resonating frequencies.

When a pickup is set too high the magnetic pull on the string produces what some call a wolf note.
Why don't we hear similar from these altered string vibrations. The principle is exactly the same. One vibration acting on another vibration is going to be similar to a vibrating string having a magnet too close to it.

Imbalance I'm honestly enjoying your posts. Oneal and you yourself are the only people on this thread entering into a discussion. I fully accept what you're saying but why one thing and not the other? If one is true then so must the other be too.

_________________
No no and no

Niki,

This is the book I bought from amazon


http://www.amazon.com/Science-Music-Sir-James-Jeans/dp/0486619648/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1285186942&sr=8-2


and currently reading. Its from 1937 so hes not talking solid body instruments and it may or may not have some answers but its where I am starting.

He was from the UK so you might find it around in one of you public libraries or academic one.

later,

OL

_________________
I remember when we were free!

Me too, and believe me when I say I've gotten much more from this forum than I have contributed.

I believe oneal and I are basically on the same page, he said a rubber guitar would sound different than a glass one all else being equal, he also said the strings aren't isolated from the body by the nut / bridge, so I agree.

The magnet pulling on the strings is an entirely different phenomenon than tone woods and wolf tones. And who even knew there is a wolf note eliminator! There will be an interaction between the magnet and the strings. The closer the two or the stronger the magnet the greater the interaction, a strong enough magnet and the strings would stop vibrating.

cheers

Would amp feedback, be in essence, induced Wolf phenomenon?

Yes, thanks imbalance, you stated it much better than I!

sincerely

OL

_________________
I remember when we were free!

amp feedback is something different again.

I believe it is the sound coming from the amp, hitting the stings and causing a signal back into the amp, out the amp to the strings back again, and so on. An amplifying loop until it is stopped.

Call a radio station and hold the phone up to the radio, they hate that. Same thing, the sound, certain frequencies, not nice ones, gets looped around

Here is a very scientific design, by Jack White, that demonstrates the concept of tone wood, glass bridge, electromagnets, string size, the relationship between the nut and bridge and wolf notes. If he recorded this, I wonder what people would think it was???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFXeChXfcI

Also check this out! It kind of demonstrates the principles of almost any junk can make guitar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kswZ_KriQRo&feature=channel

_________________
Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

Imbalance a wolf note is the name of the magnetic pull induced problem of a singlecoil pickup too close to the strings of a electric guitar. Americans may call it stratitus or whatever.

The fact of the matter is that the problem is caused when a strings natural vibration is acted upon by a magnet. What I want to know is, how is the counter vibration from a piece of wood (that doesn't actually touch the string at any point) act any differently? Why do we get the symptom in one circumstance but not the other, when the same action must be taking place in both circumstances? Namely the strings natural movement being impeded by vibration or by magnet.

_________________
No no and no

Niki, Laying aside the science for a bit, check these out. Wonder how we would describe the tone of these??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMz2KoIxWIY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA1Fy-zgI9Q&feature=related

_________________
Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com

no matter the bridge or nut design, the string is anchored into the body. the whole dang thing vibrates. strike an open string then feel the lower bout of your guitar, you should be able to feel the vibration. there is a chain of contact.

String is connected to saddle, saddle to bridge, bridge is screwed into body.
At the other end, tuners and nut are attached to neck, which is technically a cantilever. as the vibrating string effects the body, so does the body effect the vibrating string.

As the string vibrates energy is absorbed and dissipated both into the surrounding air and by the guitar. As this energy is lost the string stops vibrating. depending on the material(s) the guitar is constructed from different frequencies decay at different rates. This in turn causes the string to vibrate in a less than perfect sine-wave.

This shapes the timbre of timbre of the guitar, which is what people are erroneously calling the tone of he instrument in this thread. Now the acoustic timbre (pronounced tamber, not timber,) is largely irrelevant when we discuss the electric guitar, but the impact of this energy loss on the vibration path of the string as it moves through the electrical field of the pickups is real.

Now I still think the electronics chain is the more prominent in the overall effect. the more gain , the more distortion and effects the less you hear the difference in the composition of the guitar, to the point it can actually become completely obscured, but that is through electronic jiggery shaping the sound wave.

most tone woods have very similar make up. even the ones we consider very different, like ash and mahogany are more alike than a hardwood, and a soft wood. but exceedingly similar woods, like poplar, ash and alder, well, the differences are way to small to reliably sort out by ear.

_________________
I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet.

Neither of em sounded like hollowbodies did they?
The top one sounded like a SCN strat neck, no real dip or sccop of mids.
The lower link sounded like a telecaster crossed with a SG from what I could make of it through all the effects.

12B
Why doesn't body vibration counteract string vibration? They have to be out of sync to each other, simply through the distance between em. We'll have to agree to disagree on the string touching timber thing. I see nowhere on my guitars where the string touches wood. If 3rd party points of contact are in some way responsible for altering the sound of a guitar by transfering wood timbre to the string (something that doesn't even happen with acoustic instruments when you think about it). Then surely the tuning machines and even the string tree must contriblute more to the sound of the guitar than the wood does. After all the sound would be entirely dependant on what these components wanted to pass on.

Go do the experiment. Grab your guitar, plug it into your amp set clean, no reverb or other BS. Set your eq to give a balanced sound. Play a chord. Then play a chord with exactly the same setup but the headstock of the guitar rested on a wooden table.
Makes a world of difference unamplified, changes not one jot amplified though. Why?

_________________
No no and no

All these guitars sound different!!!!

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

I've been thinking about that. I think this means that the more resonant a guitar, the less sustain! That's because the vibrating energy of the string is lost by vibrating the wood.

_________________
Member #26797
My other guitar is a Strat.

And the heavier mass results in slower decay of the string energy. (longer sustain)

_________________
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

Exactly

The effects of the wood acting upon the string would be so varied and wild as a builder you'd throw away atleast half your guitar bodies.

Once you add vibration onto a string already vibrating at a cycle speed to produce a note, you'll add extra underlying notes.
That mistake would only be emphasised by amplification through the eq system focusing on certain frequencies.

Did anyone do the tabletop test yet?

_________________
No no and no