nikininja,

Thanks, I own a bunch of cheapies too, and some good ones.

2 plywood? MIK squires
2 MIC bullet squires
1 MI? squier strat
1 Quest strat MIJ clone
MIM
2 MIA

Yes, my point would be if material makes little to no difference, why would anyone spend a lot of dollars or pounds for a guitar, and instead by a nice squier and change the pickups, bridge etc.

I started out with the 2 squires as project guitars, I modded them to the max. tuners, pickups,bridge, bridge block etc. everything a high quality strat would have and they still sound thin, actually the plywood koreans sound better than the chinese, even with the cheapo pickups.

You make some interesting points, and I do not have all the answers, but your assurtion flys in the face of everything I hear when I play different electric guitars of the same line plugged and unplugged. I trust me I am no Eric Johnson when it comes to hearing tone.

There is something at work there.

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I remember when we were free!

No they are not when you buy them of course. But the statement is made to level the playing field. Assuming that they are for the sake of argument.

It is a way of getting to the crux of debate.

If it is easer then this.

ALL 2010 american standards given the same components sound the same.
ALL 2010 american standards made of rubber sound the same, and the same as alder american standards
ALL 2010 american standards made of brass sound the same, and the same as the rubber ones, and the same as alder ones.........

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I remember when we were free!

Oneal Lane

That list goes back 25 years mate.
I bought some expensive guitars because I was in a position to do so. There were instances when it was the right thing to do at the time. Notably the Charvel and Dean guitars in the late 80's. A top end strat was something I'd always wanted. The 57Hotrod kicked it off for me, that MIM Squier Series spent a lot of time modded with a Dimarzio rails bucker in the bridge. No sooner had I ditched the mod Fender bought out the Hotrods.
So why you may ask? Well you just don't get the playability out of a Encore copy that you do a Customshop strat. Sorry, theres great cheap guitars out there that can punch well above their weight in terms of sound and reliability. You just cant get a £100 guitar to play like a £1900 one without spending a load of money to pay some bloke to do the work. I reckon the cost would come in at around £1800.

Yep I think that if you took a alder strat played and recorded it. Swapped all the components onto a acrylic/carbon composite strat neck and body. It would sound exactly the same.

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No no and no

Thanks,

I have never run accross this debate but I am new to guitar world or re-newed.

I played when I was a teen and had a red Ventura 336 copy and moved to a SG in 1977, I had really wanted a LP but could not afford it. I just never loved the SG and sold everything in 1986. I did not touch a guitar again until Jan. 2008. My brother gave me a "Quest" fat strat clone. I fell in love with playing all over again and love the stratocaster a great deal.

Well thanks for the info and debate. Its cause for thought. I think its all wrapped up in physics of course, a subject I eschewed as a youth but come to realize everything is math and physics, everything in this existance any way.

OL

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I remember when we were free!

So the fact that wood maybe darker or brighter makes no difference? the attack that you get from the wood when you strum the guitar makes no difference?

Come on...

Non at all on a electric instrument.

Before you think this a nonsense please answer my previous questions.
Shouldn't be that hard to do, should it?

Personaly I like Retroverbial's reply. How does that wood sound get down the 1/2v of power from the pickups.

To quote one of OrvilleOwners old classics 'Which possition of the 5way delivers the most wood tone?"

Your hearing hardware, you can carry on kidding yourselves if you want. I used to kid myself too. You'll never talk me into believing that old lie thought up to sell guitars again.

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No no and no

Well I put the question to Mike Eldred of the custom shop down on the Ask Mike Eldred. Let see what Mike has to say on this matter.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

It's been put to him before. To the point of him alienating one of the tonewood believers, who agreed with him. When he questioned him on the intricacies of it.

It just doesn't hold up aurally, scientifically or practically. It exists nowhere in the electric guitar world except for advertising and opinion.

Enough already, someone answer my questions. This whole thread is pointless until there is a definite provable answer.

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No no and no

To the first it's about vibrating bodies, and to the second all five equally.

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I remember when we were free!

Not so much.

I have a 2 MIC squire bullets. Both have standard fender tuners and all steel bridges and big fat steel trem. bars, (the trem bars did more for tonal quality than the alnico 5 pickups). I did ll the work myself and on a cheepie if you screw up it's not so bad.


And there is one for you. The cheep thin zinc alloy trem bar that comes on the squire when replaced by a big fat steel or brass bar gives a marked tonal improvement. and it too, is not in the electric circuit.

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I remember when we were free!

I just say that anything that changes the sine wave of a guitar string is going to change its sound. The thing that does this the most is the neck type and overall mass which is going to change the string harmonics. The sine wave of the string differs between it's two end points (nut-Bridge) by how tight the string is. Like wise when the string is tuned the part to which the nut and bridge are connected can change the sine wave of the string if the mass is changed or the natural flex of the neck is different because of a different type of wood or construction type even. It a matter of anything that can cause the waveform to be different.
Large difference or small may vary as to how noticeable it is but it's there because the wave along the string is making the sound.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

Thomas Jefferson

So how does that alteration of the cycle of the note, caused by the vibration of the body wood, not distort the note in any way or add a wolf note. Like having the pickup too high/ magnet too close to the string?

It must do it the vibration of the body has to be out of sync with the vibration of the string because the string causes the body to vibrate.

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No no and no

Yes but it is in direct contact with the string. Alnico pickups are another load of marketing hype too. As Bill Lawrence says, a magnet is just that a magnet. It has no tonal properties by itself outside of the complete circuit.

Sorry mate I've spent hours upon hours modding guitars, helping other people mod theirs, making guitars and repairing guitars. You can't get a a Squier to play like a Customshop. You may get close but you will never replicate the intricacies of a hand made guitar.

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No no and no

In what way?

So your saying altering the vibrational setting does have and effect?

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I remember when we were free!

Niki, So far i have been being a bit sarcastic about this thread due to the fact that no one wins. What your doing is striking at the heart of urban myths of the electric guitar. One time I posted that I was going to start a thread entitled "Urban Myths about Strats" and I think Mr. C. commented that those kind of threads will be hotly debated and then finally locked down! When one tries debunking a urban myth….well, good luck.

What we are really dealing with in this subject is the mystical relationship between a guitar and its owner. Wow, if you think something so strongly it becomes a reality—at least to that person. Like paying big bucks for a custom built Strat made from your favorite "tone wood," with a vintage route under the pickguard, using vintage cloth wiring, shot with Nitro so the "wood can breath" and thus be the ultimate sounding machine on planet earth. I know one guy that bought a custom Strat like that and I asked if he could really tell the difference from his other ones. "Oh yes, it is absolutely incredible!" he answered. He brought it to my house, and I plugged it in and it didn't sound any different than one of my Strat Plus guitars. His pickups had a bit more top-end brightness, but note, the pickups had that….not the wood. But to him, he heard things I did not hear, but then again he had $3700 investing in the sound! So we are dealing with a very strong urban marketing myth. If we were talking acoustic guitars, that would be different.

There are harmonics which are cause by design of a guitar, but the wood has very little to do with it when played electrically. A hollow body will feedback by design verses a plank guitar. I recorded a blues piece using a stock Mexican top-loader Tele. We had a Hammond B3, bass and drums. I ran right into a mixer board, with a Line 6 Pod and no amp. I let people listen to the recording and asked what they thought the guitar was. Because they knew me, they said all kinds of things—of course naming higher-end USA guitars. Nope, just a cheap old Mexican Tele!

So the point is, the sound comes from a complexity of things: speaker, amp, tubes, boxes, pickups, springs, nut, etc.. Wood is on the bottom of the list as far as I am concerned. Good luck dealing with Urban Myths.....Like i said earlier. Some guitars have that magic and others don't.....but the wood had very little to do with it.

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Xhefri's Guitars
www.xhefriguitars.com