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Post subject: Some paint spilled on my body!!(a partscaster thread)
Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:21 pm
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I guess it's time to get rolling on what can only at this point be
called the 'Procasticaster' OK that won't be it's name, but I haven't
decided what I should call it, if anything, so this is a good working
title for the project. I have had all the parts since the end of April
but I haven't been able to work on it. Weather has kind of been my biggest
impediment. I am using Nitrocellulose, and need low humidity, and I have
no indoor area to spray, so some other factors have worked against me.
we had non stop rain all through April, May, June, and the start of July.
My clear weather break in July was ruined for work because owners of a couple
of old buildings on my block took advantage of the clear weather yo knock em down,
and fill in the holes from the foundations. The whole area was super dusty, and
totally unsuited for me to work. Then it was right back to another month of high
humidity and daily thunderstorms. Finally i got a break in the middle of August.

I'm actually fairly deep into this project before posting, you'll get the installments as I get to writing them up.
(It's more work than you thing sorting through pictures, and deciding how best to describe what they're about.)


So here's the deal...

I have a pretty tight schedule, right now. It's a LOT more work and a LOT
more time consuming than anyone realizes to sort through and discard literally hundreds of
photographs before finding even the few you guys see, and then writing, editing, rewriting
the topic posts. I am starting to see what a massive undertaking Ceri's thread was, not only the
work itself, but also his incredibly well written and detailed chronicle of it. He was literally
putting in an extra full workday for every post, which he did solely for our entertainment/education.

Frankly I am really strapped for time, between work, other commitments and this project. I've had a busier than usual work
schedule, and other things that needed attention. So i actually completed a lot of work, it will take a while to catch the thread up to where I am in the project...

PS this might be a bit wordy, so if you have no interest in the how to, you may want to just look at the pictures :wink:

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Last edited by Twelvebar on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:21 pm
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There have been some excellent project threads here, so I only hope I can
contribute as well.

Ceri, Andybighair, and Kong using both damaged and self crafted parts have covered all, and more,
woodworking than i could contribute to. I have no room to do any real fabrication so my
thread will focus mainly on finishing, (I'll be mixing all my own tints and shaders,)
any woodworking will be incidental, and only be for any repairs (knock wood I don't wreck
this and have to roll up my sleeves,) and for basic parts that weren't pre-drilled.
I need to drill mounting holes for the pickguard, output jackplate, and strap buttons
on the body, and only index holes for the tuners on the neck, and possibly a string tree,
if I should prove to need it.

Where the aforementioned forumites used either homemade or damaged parts as a platform
for their projects, I am only using a body and neck from a 3rd party manufacturer. My other
parts are from various sources. Foremost being, I had planned to swap out the pickups on
my Strat for a set of Custom Shop Texas Specials. In the end I decided to keep it stock, and
those pickups sat unused for years in my parts box. I also had almost all the required hardware
for a Strat in that box. When the new American Special came out,and I saw it used the same pickups,
thought to myself that I would have done a few things differently, to set it apart from the regular
line a bit more. That was the final inspiration for this project, the first being Ceri's two excellent
projects, and then the ones from other members.I can only hope to live up to standard set by Ceri,
Andybighair and Kong...

Image

Image

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:24 pm
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So in a lot of ways when starting a finishing project the most important stuff comes before you apply any of the paint...

(I'm going to try explain the steps i have taken a bit, in case it may help anyone if they want to give this kind of thing a whirl.)
-Prework inspection:

-always make sure to do preliminary inspection of parts for flaws, nicks, scrapes, indentations etc.
-test fit neck to body, be sure of a nice snug, but not too tight fit, and
-test fit parts, align the bridge,and then the neck. If things don't fit, now is the time to return
anything, or to fix it if you are so inclined.
-note: I affixed pickguard and jack plate with 2 sided tape, in order to hold them in proper alignment
so I could be sure to drill the holes and mount them in the proper place, without the shifting while I used
the drill.
-I also drilled appropriate holes for index pins for tuners,different tuners mount differently so wait until
you have the actual part and work from there. I'm using Schaller locking tuners, so I drilled the two index
holes common on modern Fenders.

Image

Image

That's Molly the Foreman of the shop, inspecting my work, she never seems satisfied, I can't complain because she
is also somehow also shop steward, a complete violation of union rules!!

(Actually that's probably the last you'll see of Molly until completion of the project. Lacquers mean strict use of
a respirator and goggles, I'm not brave enough to try put her in either, so she'll be locked up at the other end
of the house during spraying.)


I set the tuners into the holes, aligned them with a straight edge, and
pressed down on them, then just used those indentations as my points to drill. I put a piece of tape on the
drill bit as a depth marker, last thing you want to do is accidentally drill all the way through and wreck
the face of the headstock.

-Prep Stage:

-I broke the edges on the pickup cavities, control route, and jack
plate cavity. By this I mean I lightly scuff sanded the
edges of these, as paint adheres better to softer corners
and really square corners are notoriously hard to wet sand
and polish without sanding through the top layers to the
coats below.

-Then I did thorough inspection for flaws. If you have any this is
the time to find and fix them. They will be magnified after
the body is finished. I also did some whiskering, and scuff
sanding at this point, this body sat for a while after i got it
and it's been non-stop raining all spring and summer, so i
wanted to play it safe. Remember that sanding means using grit
covered paper to scrape or shred away wood. the finer the grit
the smoother it feels to the touch, but it is never really smooth,
when magnified there are pits and hills. Also as the wood is removed
the paper leaves behind torn hanging little shreds of wood, that are
still attached to the body. You can't really see them but they are
there, so to remove them, and make the surface more smooth, you
do what is known as 'whiskering',or grain raising. You wipe the body
down with a barely damp rag. damp with water, by the way. The little
shreds of wood absorb the water, and stand on end,exactly like if
you soak wilted celery and it stiffens up. then you lightly scuff
the surface with sandpaper, and it will remove only these shreds of
wood, and leave the main part of the surface even more smooth.
(Hopefully someone with more and better woodworking experience can
correct my super basic description of any errors.) When I do this I roll
up my sandpaper, and pass very lightly over the surface of the guitar,
using only the weight of the paper for pressure. One pass with 220 followed
by another with 320.

I used a lightstrength concentration of Amber Dye in the water I used for
whiskering on this body. I did this for 2 reasons. I am using Texas Special
pickups, which are an approximation of some late 50's (or possibly even 1960,)
pickups that were in SRV's #1 guitar. I am also planning to wire this guitar
to 1950's-early 60's specs.I am also finishing it in Nitrocellulose lacquer,
using the techniques of the pre-CBS shop. Fender used a yellow dye on most
of their bodies at the time, and as the I expect the lacquer to wear over time
I want the yellowish effect to show through when the body is revealed when the
paint wears off. I don't really want a bright yellow, so I went more amber.
Also a nice side effect is that the dye will kind of concentrate
a little on imperfections, making it much easier to find any flaws. I'm really
not too concerned about the dye going on perfectly even, I will be when we get to
the neck, but not on the body.

When i did the whiskering and dying thing, it brought out some old ink stamp marks,
there was a clear date stamp that reappeared, and one with some partial numbers
I couldn't really tell what it was. I forgot to take a
picture. I would have been displeased if I was going to do a natural finish or a
sunburst, as I am sure they would have shown through. I had to do a bit more than normal
scuff sanding to remove them, and it really affected the uniformity of my dye job,
which would have caused a lot of extra work sanding down and redying, if I wanted
the grain of the wood to be visible.


-After that it was time to clean and degrease the body. I normally
do this in 3 stages. First I wipe the body down with Naphtha,
this is the main cleaning agent, it will disolve the oils
and waxes thatmay be contaminating the wood, the only thing
it doesn't really get is silicon.

Silicon is a terrible contaminant for most paints, it interferes
with adhesion, and is the cause of 'fisheyes' the bane of
finishers everywhere. Gibson for one bans even colognes and
aftershaves known to contain silicon from their spray rooms.

To remove the silicon I next wipe with Mineral Spirits. Varsol is
an option, it's main ingredient is Mineral Spirits, but as i don't
know what else is in the mixture i go with the straight up Mineral
spirits. The Mineral Spirits will draw any silicon from out of the
wood but it will cling to the surface.

That is why stage 3 of the clean up is a weak solution of ammonia and
water. keep the rag almost dry, and this will mop up the last of the
silicon.

-From this point on this body will only be handled with Nitrile gloves, latex
is good too, if you can find the unpowdered kind. unfortunately since
latex likes to stick to skin, almost all the gloves use a powder residue
to combat this, and that powder is invariably silicon. It is vital to keep
the wood super clean, until you seal it.

-Now the prep work is done and we are ready to move on to painting.

here it is beside my Strat, neck pickguard and bridge mounted for alignment.

Image

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:34 pm
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I love build threads! Can't wait to see the finish on the body, useful tips there about cleaning up the contaminants on it.

Also, putting in my 2 pence I think that 'Procasticaster' is a top name to use :p


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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:41 pm
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Thanks sir.

like i said i have already done a lot of the work. it is mostly the typing you'll have to wait for, maybe i should break down the timeline for what i did too. I don't want to create an impression that this went quickly, because when painting it's all about patience and waiting, and waiting, and waiting and...

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:47 pm
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Ok so a little unlike Ceri, I like to use a handle when I paint. It probably grew out of having to learn to paint
on a balcony, with no room for a proper counter and turntable. But I like to do a mix of painting while
the body is flat, and some while it's hanging. Horses for coarses as they say.(Does anyone say that?)

So painting is pretty boring. Not glamorous like the repair work Ceri and Andy have done.Now the thing with that
is it is most of the process that is boring, hopefully not the result. But painting is all about patience.
painting is about prep work, it must be immaculate. I hope put in enough elbow grease. Anything you let slide,
anything you didn't fix properly, and every single short cut you take will show up magnified after painting.

It would seem like paint should cover stuff up, but in a lot of ways it is quite the opposite.

For the job I am doing I don't have access to a lot of the ready to spray products my American friends do,
or even as much as our UK brethren have too. What I do have is a pretty nice old school paint shop a scant 5
minutes from my house. As I said above I want to use old school products like Nitrocellulose lacquer on this
project, and the big box stroes don't sell all the stuff they do in the USA, even the same chains don't carry
the same stock. The mail order option that Kong used is out too, due to tighter cross-border restrictions
on volotile products in the post 9-11 era. Luckilly I have that store close by, and between that and an art supply
store also conveniently located I was able to source most of what I need.

As a result of not being able to buy a lot of what I need I will be mixing my own colours, so if it ends up looking
totally dogass it's all my own fault. Aside from the sealer every other ounce of paint on this puppy started out as

Image

I will post pictures as I go, but for the most part it will be as follows:

So the body i bought (from Warmoth,) is Alder,(4lbs,1oz.--Because Ceri will ask!)

Image

it is a closed pore wood and doesn't require any grain filling, so the first
step is to seal the body of the guitar. For this I will use vinyl sealer. This is lacquer with
vinyl pellets dissolved in it, This is like the sanding sealer that Kong used, except that instead of vinyl
sanding sealer uses soap like stearates. These additives make the lacquer thicker, and easier to sand. I think vinyl
dries harder and clearer(clarity isn't an issue on the sealer for my finish, but the hardness always is,) I also
think the vinyl sealer adheres a bit better with the layers of lacquer to follow.

either way, the purpose of either sealer is to fill in any pores and grain lines, harden the surface of the wood,
this stops the wood from absorbing lacquer, you really don't want your colour coats to sink in, this will provide a
very uneven surface.If time and money aren't factors you could ideally just build thin layers of lacquer. the wood
would absorb a lot of it, though and so you would use a lot more lacquer, and it would add weeks to the paintjob.

The sealer also is a primer to promote adhesion between your wood and your paint.
the excess sealer is sanded away to (hopefully,)provide a smooth surface to apply your other coats of paint to.

Image

So this was all i did on day 1. I had planned to let it sit overnight, but weather was not good the next day, so it sat for 2 days. Not a bad thing, as there is no real window for lacquer that you must spray within a certain time limit, like there is for other finishes, like the urethanes I used on the Ibanez thread.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:18 pm
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Now for what I have planned, I am gonna try simulate a lot of what Fender's method was in the very early days.
So they used a coat or two of white lacquer as a primer, for their solid colours.
Simple, cover it white. White does the best job of hiding any grain. It also makes it easier to make sure you get
good even coverage on your colour coats, more contrast so if you miss anywhere it would really stand out.
i actually quite like the grain on this one, but it has a lot of mineral
streaks. I actually wouldn't mind them on a burst, but a lot of people would discard it immediately. As I ordered
this with a specific paintjob in mind, I didn't care either way about the grain.

Image

Normally I would only cover it this much, which is 2 really thin coats.. It's not total coverage, but no one will
see it anyway, and really it is only there as a guide for making sure i have proper coverage on the intended finish.
But for a couple reasons I went with a more solid coverage, I added one more thin coat. There were
a couple for it. 1) I had some splatter, which didn't really photograph, so i sanded it down,(i would have done this
step anyway, but probably not the added white,) 2) a nice crisp white is important to my final design :wink:

the splatter was from one of two reasons, possibly a combo of both.
My technique is rusty, and my brother used one of my guns to spray latex paint, and didn't clean it properly. I should
have checked it better. Also I probably had a little less pressure on that first pass. it's moot now, as I level sanded,
and went for more coverage anyway. More coverage is because I have an idea, which if i pull it off will make my project
unique, and if i don't will mean stripping it all down, and starting over. Wish me luck.
here it is, with the white primer done:

Image

I made the white primer, by disolving some liquid white tint i got from the paint shop in some lacquer thinner, then adding it
to some clear lacquer.

Hm.. no idea why that one went all blurry, blame the end user, please don't inundate me with photography lessons,
I won't pay attention, just wanted to show how much more white it was.

I let this sit for a couple more days. Busy with other stuff, bad weather, and given the finish i want to do , it's a good idea to let the primer settle and sink. it will do so anyway, but it's better to have it sink before getting to the colors. any imperfections or movement of the lacquer will magnify under your colour coats, this would be especially prominent with what I have in mind.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:27 pm
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Now I'm undecided as to what to post next.
should I continue in chronological order? or should I post the near
finished project, and the break down how it got that way? (i think the 2nd way might be the way to go.)

here's a hint while I go eat and decide:

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:39 pm
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So everyone knows, the bestest and fastest guitars are

Image


and bestest of the best are

Image
Candy Apple Red.

so really the only way to make it better is










Image


to add some go fast stripes!!! ( I couldn't resist laying the parts in there for a mock up.)

I have to do some minor touch ups, then do the clear coats, but it is almost done.

the clear coats should add even more depth and sheen to the colours.

then it's 30 days of torture waiting for it to cure so i can wetsand and polish.

I also need to start on the neck, including decal design.


I'm compiling a bit of a recap of what i did, if anyone is interested, but it'll take me a little time to complete.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:07 pm
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Quote:
I'm compiling a bit of a recap of what i did, if anyone is interested, but it'll take me a little time to complete.


It looks GREAT! 8)

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:35 pm
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That really is the red that all other reds secretly want to be, isn't it.

Absolutely, carnally, gratuitously red.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:37 pm
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This is how i did the CA Red:

So from the solid white base coat it took some clever (if i do say so myself,) taping up.

Image

Next I untaped the areas er, I'm getting ahead of the game here...

So originally i was going to just do a basic Candy Apple Red, a hard enough finish as it is.
Candy paint jobs are metallic, but they differ from a basic metallic paint job in that the metal shiny bits
aren't suspended in the colour coat, like in Kong's beautiful guitar:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=35433


rather there is a metallic under coat, and you look through a toner (coloured transparent lacquer,) at the shiny stuff
underneath. the effect is quite different.

So I mixed a small amount of silver lacquer, I used a metallic powder:

Image

and painted some blocks. The lacquer was made by mixing a portion of the powder into some lacquer thinner,
then combining that with lacquer, jiggering with it until I got a nice spraying consistency. I used very scientific
tools, the scale above, and then some laboratory quality measuring apparati:

Image

Then I sprayed some blocks, I had some old 2X4 that I cut into blocks. I only gave em a quick shot of sealer, and didn't sand smooth.
I then painted them white. Then the metallic. I didn't care about them being as smooth as the guitar, i just wanted to use em to compare
shades.

Image
(This pic is only the silver, I have to force myself to remember to take photos.)

I did the same with some gold lacquer too.(Also made by me, in the same manner.) Oh I am glad i did my mixing outside
in a covered area. This powder is diabolic. I think Nikininja opened a beer at his home in the UK and the disruption sent little clouds of this stuff
careering around in the air. this stuff gets everywhere, it is brutal to clean. Anyone who has tried to clean a pillowcase
after entertaining some glittery late night talent from the bar knows what this is like, only this stuff is like 1000
times worse.


I liked the way the Red looked over gold better, but seeing it beside the silver gave me the idea that added a lot more work to the project.


Image
(On the Gold block, i had removed the tape, and then decided to see how it would look with a couple more passes so you see the less clean line.)


Now we're at the taped up stage. This was by far the hardest, most tedious, tricky,challenging,frustrating...
well, you get the idea. Anyway it was much harder than you might think to get right. it took longer to do than any other task
in this whole process, including mixing paint and spraying it. it's still not perfect, but i am happy with the result.

So anyway I decided it would be infinitely easier to mask the body, remove the stripes where i wanted silver,
and spray those first.

Image

So I did the stripes in 2 coats. let it dry and did 2 mist coats of clear to lock in the metallic. Then after that all dries up (8 hours,)
I replaced the tape over the silver stripes and unmasked the rest. That I sprayed gold. The white stripes are all the way down to the primer coat, in the taped up picture you can see the thin white masking tape, it remained in place for the whole process.

Image

Image

These below are it in sunlight, the camera really doesn't do the luster any justice at all:

Image

Image



Then the customary 2 mist clear coats. I let that dry overnight.
With the design, i did the silver first since i could keep the same tape for both the gold and red stages of the paint job.



Then on went the red. I mixed this:

Image

I forgot to take pictures of the first couple light passes. SORRY.
But this is after 2 really light passes, and one medium. At this point it would be a nice candy tangerine.
I was sorely tempted to stop spraying, but I wanted a deep red.

Image

Image

It is getting decidedly less orange with each pass.

1 quick clear coat, just for my own paranoia about damage.



next I let that dry for a couple hours and removed the last of the tape.

Image

Image

then it went back to the storage room to hang overnight.


I have a bit of touch up to do, when the weather clears back up. nothing major. On the back there is a bit of red that looks like it is over the white stripes, it isn't bleed through though. it is paint that broke from the surface of the tape, it is kind of curled up, I just need to trim it off with a razor blade (I know i have a bunch, but i can't find them.) i also want to tape off the white stripes and give em a quick pass of more white with my airbrush (I don't want to use my larger auto paint guns for that.), to crisp the lines up a little bit.


Then I'll do the clear coats. Around 6, starting thin and each being a bit thicker. i may do a couple more, just to allow a bit more margin for error when i wet sand and polish.

Then it'll be banished to cure for a minimum of 30 days, before i polish it up. I still have to tackle the neck, I'll try posting that as i work on it,
not waiting until almost done like the body. My schedule shouldn't be as busy, and the work won't be as complicated or labor intensive so i should have time to type.

Well, now you are caught up to where i am.

Image

I did the painting over the coarse of a week and a half, maybe only five days where I was able to work. Hopefully weather and schedule will allow me to finish this up , and get cracking on the neck.

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Last edited by Twelvebar on Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:55 pm
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That looks really good 12bar. I wouldn't mind having mine done up with that scheme. Really a great color too!


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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:23 am
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Right. Just found this thread and read it very carefully from the beginning to this point - twice. I have so much to say and ask. Opening with a big juicy entrée of WOW! Talk about raising the bar. ...Raising the twelvebar...

Très cool, Mr T. 8) 8) 8)

First. Naphtha, mineral spirits - and then ammonia and water. That third bit is new to me, so thank you for that. The learning has started.

Next: pictures for those as don't like to read; words for those as do. Good. But some of us want more words. In particular, those who are falling over in admiration at a fella mixing his own metallic paint require recipes, please. Seriously: weights and quantities, and some discussion of nozzle size and spraying pressure, if you'd be so kind. And how's cleanup - more tiresome than usual? It's all going to be copied down and put to good use. And BTW, thank you for that photo of the mixed red lacquer. All by itself that is very handy.

Regarding metallic paint: does anyone like me think that silver looked absolutely f-f-f-flipping fantastic? I want a Strat with that finish immediately, if you please! Seriously: that's better than any other silver finish I've ever seen. I love it! Zammo!

And the gold is excellent too. How ABOUT a build thread where either of those stages could be the finished product but are in fact just steps along the way? I trust some others here are appreciating just how clever and magnificent this is!!!

Next:
Twelvebar wrote:
Horses for coarses as they say.(Does anyone say that?)

Yes, they (we) really do! :D

Next:
Twelvebar wrote:
I also need to start on the neck, including decal design.

Ah. It's public hanging head in shame time.

Confession. Months ago Twelvebar mentioned a custom decal for this project. I swaggeringly asked if I could have a go at it, got started, put it aside during a busy period... and forgot about it. Then 12Bar politely mentioned it in passing and I realised I'd let it slip and determined to make up for my tardiness.

So now my plan was to not merely submit a design but do a proper sheet of custom logo decals for him and mail them over. BUT. Try as I might I couldn't find a way to get the metallic gold element from the Fender spagetti script into a decal using processes available to the home designer. Again, I put it aside whilst waiting to travel up country to a certain commercial printer I happen to know of in the hope that they could help me with the metallic element of it. That happened a couple of weeks ago - and it turned out they couldn't help after all, once we had the issue spread out on the table in front of us. Back to square one.

I tried messing with hand applied gold leaf and writer's gold-size. Meh - not neat enough. Huh.

Then the other day I saw Forum user Kozy's own custom decal:
Image

Isn't that excellent? The uncomfortable truth is that is simply better than what I'd designed. I'm not remotely competitive - but I can't stand being beaten! :lol:

So worse than back to square one.

Talk about wordy, but this is all explaining to Twelvebar why he hasn't got a "designed by Ceri" decal in front of him yet. Is it too late, 12B? Can you tollerate a design that doesn't have gold metallic elements? Are you still speaking to me...? :(

If not, perhaps Molly The Cat will talk to me. Hi Molly, welcome to the Forum! :D

Meanwhile. Twelvebar, deep pleasure and personal improvement are being had from this thread. Thank you for all the effort that has gone into it so far, and please keep going in the same vein!

Yippy - C


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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:48 am
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:57 am
Posts: 13164
Location: Peckham: where the snow leopards roam
PS Hey, where's the beer on this thread?

Twelvebar, your work has me in a
Image

Cheers - C


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