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Post subject: LSR roller nut ball bearings
Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:19 pm
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Hi, I lost one of the ball bearings from the lsr roller nut on my Strat Plus, but I'm having a hard time finding any specs for the ball bearing. If anyone has info on the ball bearing size, that would be greatly appreciated as I want to track down a new ball bearing for it and get my strat back in action as soon as possible.


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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:15 pm
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Welcome to our forum.

Don't know the ball size but I have heard a few people complain about the LSR balls being troublesome. I've owned several LRS equipped guitars myself and have never had a problem with them including my number one which sees a lot of play time and I have had it for more than 12 years. The nuts are screwed to the neck, though, so if you can't find a ball you may be able to replace the nut. If the mate to the ball that was lost appears reasonably easy to remove you might be able to put a vernier cailper on it.

http://www.warmoth.com/Fenderreg-LSR-Roller-Nut-1-1116-Wide-Chrome-P305C840.aspx

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:38 am
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I've had my strat plus for about fifteen years and never had a problem with the lsr before today either. I was changing my strings today and got a little overzealous giving the nut a clean/lube job and one of the damn balls just went flying. I'm going to put off vacuuming for a few days in hopes of finding the thing, but considering the size of it, I'm not too optimistic.

I had the nut unscrewed from the neck when it happened, so I know replacing it won't be a problem, but I'd rather not shell out $45 if I don't have to. Seeing as I'm not the only person to have had this problem, it sure would be nice if Fender sold replacement ball bearings, or had specs for them listed somewhere. Oh well.


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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:43 am
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Welcome!

I had brought up this problem of the balls in this unit becoming elliptical and their jumping out of the frame along time ago. Everyone was all over me like flies on horse manure admonishing me that they had this unit for 'umpteen' years and never had this problem nor did they ever hear of it. Of course, I was labeled as some kind of "doomsday naysayer".

Now that I've been vindicated, I'll continue on with some of the problems you are facing, premising that you can't find the lost one or choose not to purchase a new unit:

Of course, the exact size of the ball is important but what is its chemical composition? For example (and I don't know), what if they are case hardened steel and all you can find is stainless? What is the OEM ball size tolerances in terms of +/-? Such considerations will affect the glide of the string and the ball's inherent strength, not to mention its operating efficiency over a prolonged period of time; and then there's the issue of one ball to another in terms of the same operating efficiency (or lack thereof). I'll bet my bottom dollar that these OEM balls are foreign in origin where the exact metallurgy reports (if there are any) will never be made available.

The fact that the ball jumped out means it has lost its round and indeed is now elliptical. Consequently, what would be a superior replacement in order to prevent this problem from recurring? How many would one have to buy as a minimum order and where to get them? Obviously, some kind of MIL-SPEC ball would be the ultimate solution which brings us to very few companies having such capabilities in this area. Here too though, what is their minimum buy and lead time provided they made or would make them, premising one knew exactly what to order?

IMHO, your best bet is to buy another unit and hope it lasts as long as this one did. YMMV.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:41 am
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Martian, I picked up two Strat Pluses recently and remembered some sort of post like this. I stumbled upon this last week, was just wondering what a replacement may cost. http://www.earvana.com/fender_LSR.htm

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:59 am
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HemiRam wrote:
Martian, I picked up two Strat Pluses recently and remembered some sort of post like this. I stumbled upon this last week, was just wondering what a replacement may cost. http://www.earvana.com/fender_LSR.htm


Here too, I had brought up tuning and intonation problems with the Earvana systems as their offsets at the nut have repercussions as one travels up the fingerboard. Once again, everyone was all over me like flies on horse manure, here too admonishing me that the Earvana system was the greatest thing since sliced bread and of course, I was the "doomsday naysayer".

My argument then as now is plain and simple: In accordance with the shortcomings I've stated above, obviously the Earvana touted principles were around in centuries past. Now if indeed these principles were a unilateral improvement 'across the board' (play on words intended), guitar makers down through the centuries would have converted to some form or other of it. Further, if this be the case, Fender, Gibson, Martin and on and on would have been using these nut principles too since each of their inceptions. Obviously, this begs the question, Why not?

Truth be told, I've been tasked many times to restore LSR and Earvana cut nut shelves back to traditional dimensions because many players no longer want to deal with either unit's quirks, adamantly demanding a 'traditional' nut. It should be noted that I never offered my opinion one way or the other unless asked and this was well after their decisions had been made. Believe it or not, the ratio of those who have come to me to restore the nut shelves significantly out number those who have requested of me the inverse. Here too though, I never offer(ed) my opinion unless directly asked as I surely am not going to talk myself out of a job.

My disclaimer: As always, the above is merely IMO where YMMV.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:47 pm
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I have seen ESP offers it on some of their stuff, but your right, if it was the S#@T, more companies would use it. Frankly, I don't understand how it's supposed to improve intonation all over the neck. I could see it may help with open chords, but once you fret a note is the nut really doing anything? What you hear from the strings is between the fret and the adjustable saddle.
YMMV = you're method may vary?

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:17 pm
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I agree with Martin, but also would add that part of the problem is the small square looking rubber pads that holds the ball bearings in place. With age it will shrink and it will no longer hold the bearing properly (tightly). I had one pop out a couple weeks ago while I was changing strings and put it back in, moved the guitar and it popped out again (and lost it that time!) If you have the strings in place, it seems to hold them down in place.

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If you took one out and when to a machine shop, they could maybe tell you where it find one. And if you could find a bearing that same size, and put it in and tightened the strings down, it would work fine, at least for a time. If your not careful on your next string change, you might be doing this all over again. Soooo, the best best is the more expensive one, and that is replace it with another LSR Nut. It will be good to go for your lifetime! Just make sure to notice any shims under the nut and make sure you put those same shims back in the right place when you replace it! Really good nuts actually, but this is one of the down sides of them...and one of the things that never happened with a Wilkinson nut.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:01 pm
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Speaking of tuning and intonation. I saw this video the other day. Steve Vai talks about some new fret design. I'll let him talk about it, it's about 7:50 minutes in to the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b58Xil8R ... =1&index=1


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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:32 pm
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HemiRam wrote:
I have seen ESP offers it on some of their stuff, but your right, if it was the S#@T, more companies would use it. Frankly, I don't understand how it's supposed to improve intonation all over the neck. I could see it may help with open chords, but once you fret a note is the nut really doing anything? What you hear from the strings is between the fret and the adjustable saddle.
YMMV = you're method may vary?


You've just reinforced my point when it comes to fretting as well as intonation for that matter.

YMMV: "Your Mileage May Vary." Meaning, one's experience or position in whole or in part on the subject matter as stated by the poster may be different.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:18 pm
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With the number of LSR equipped guitars sold and several people complaining of issues I don't know that those few complaints justifies a wholesale condemnation of the nut. I guess I am more progressive than some on people here because I see the LSR as an improvement over a regular nut. It's steel so it cannot be accused of robbing sustain because steel transmits vibration energy, it does not absorb it the way softer typical nut materials can. It rolls so it cannot honestly be accused of tuning stability issues related to the whammy bar. It's just as straight as a regular nut so it cannot be accused of intonation issues unless the nut slot was cut in the wrong place and that is not the fault of the nut. The laws of physics simply do not support arguments of those types. I'm sorry but it's true. The only complaint that carries any credibility as far as science goes is the one about the balls being soft. If they truly are soft and are subject to deformation I have not encountered it despite owning a few guitars for a number of years so equipped and always strung with 10's at standard tuning. So I'm not even babying them with 9's or dropped tuning. Even if it were true that the balls occasionally deform throwing out the baby with the bath water is not the answer. Revising the nut and using harder balls is.

That's my 2¢

Oh, and for the poster who asked where a replacement could be found I posted a link on my previous post above.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:39 pm
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Thanks to all for your input on the issue. Despite my problem with the LSR, I think it's a great product and will continue to use it. I'll check some of my local stores tomorrow in the off chance they have one in stock, otherwise I'll be ordering a new one online. And if this one only lasts seventeen years like the first, I think I'll be okay with it.


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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:00 am
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For anyone else looking to order an LSR, I found it for only $26.89 at http://www.musicpartsplus.com/Nuts-Sadd ... 39779.html and shipping to Canada is only $4.


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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:52 pm
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3.slow wrote:
For anyone else looking to order an LSR, I found it for only $26.89 at http://www.musicpartsplus.com/Nuts-Sadd ... 39779.html and shipping to Canada is only $4.

By the way, that is a super price as I can only get these for $26.00 and that is my cost at 50% off....so how they sell it for the price, I do not know!

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Post subject: Re: LSR roller nut ball bearings
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:22 am
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I purchased a defective LSR nut. I cut the nut slot and installed it. When I went to restring one of the cavities that holds the bearings was bearingless. The little dimples that were on the claws of the other strings were there but the missing one had the claws only depressed into the cavity no dimples. I contacted the supplier and they wanted me to return at my cost and a replacement would be sent me. I would only have to wait for a backorder of 120 days. I refused and told them just to refund my money and I would return it at their cost. They refunded my full purchase price and told me to just keep the nut to avoid them paying for the shipping. Confronted with a guitar I couldn't play, got me resourceful. I made a call to a local machine shop who quickly sized the bearings. The skinny on the Fender LSR nut bearings. Simply ask for 3/32" - 2.381mm Chrome steel bearings. They can be bought at most bearing suppliers also available on Amazon and eBay. Problem solved, I was up an LSR nut for $.60.


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