Ok, posted this in a different section and haven't got any replies yet, so figured i'd try in here:

I've posted this in your other post also.

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Pending Greatness

thanks andy! came back here to delete this thread, but don't see that as an option.

thanks!

since its here.

so having a .022 mfd cap is better than a .047 ?
i figure this is my chance to learn about caps.

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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."

oogway, kungfu panda 2008

Hello!

It depends on what sound you want and the caps application. Edit: Some people like to use a 0.047 for the bridge pup and a 0.22mf for the neck and middle

Experimentation is a great way to learn and find the sound your after. If your soldering is up to it run some wires under the pickguard to the tone pot and the ground and try out some different caps.

Let us know how you get on or if you have any other questions

Andy

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Pending Greatness

A pickup is like a little generator, producing combinations of small AC currents at different frequencies (i.e. notes).

Capacitors pass current in proportion to the rate of voltage change, they will pass more current for faster-changing voltages (High freq) and less current for slower-changing voltages (low freq).

For tone control, a variable resistor tone pot is connected in series with a capacitor, and this circuit output is connected to ground. The circuit input taps off the hot signal, which is usually going thru the volume control to the output jack and on to the amp circuitry. The cap allows certain higher AC frequencies to pass more easily, in this case to travel to ground instead of to the amp, the amount depending on the setting of the pot (resistance).

This picture may be used as a representative (only) of what happens when a cap is used in a guitar tone circuit. As the value of the cap changes, the roll-off point (transition from flat to angle) changes. Higher cap values (.047uf) allow an increased/wider range of higher frequencies to pass - to travel to ground, so the resultant tone tends to be warmer. Lower values (.022uf) move the roll-off point to the right, allowing a decreased/smaller range of higher freqs to be rolled off, so the resultant tone is brighter.


In the graph, .022uf could be the purple line, and .047uf the red. Everything to their right would be going to ground and so not heard. The pitch of the line would be determined by the tone pot. Even when a typical tone pot is all the way open, a small bit of signal still passes through.

By using different value caps, you can color your tone a bit. (the pot values also effect this some, as there is a difference in resistance vs. frequency too). On a side note, caps also enhance some of the frequencies left behind, which may tend to make them piercing/annoying.

jmg257 - man you make me feel like i've never picked up a guitar in my life, i couldn't understand a word in your post but good for you, i wish i was knowledgeable like you!

after researching it some more, i've decided to go with the .022 and then see how that goes, change it if i feel the urge. luckily they're cheap eh?

thanks ryan, and jmg, you guys made more sense out of caps.

jmg, in your explanation and graph, red and purple line represent the frequencies going to ground? highs and lows, does the green represent the tone pot without a capacitor?

im not sure, but i believe the american standard has a cap going from one pot to the other, i could be wrong im going off memory.

so by warmer you mean more lows, or bass right?

thanks again. its been very helpful.

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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."

oogway, kungfu panda 2008

No sweat Ryan, I had the same questions way back when so HAD to know how they worked!
The easiest answer is to try different values and see what you like...hopefully this will give you an idea what the changes do and what you might expect!


Blues,

Green could be like .033uf, just a cap value in between the other 2. The colored lines represent a cut-off point...Everything to the left goes to the amp, everything to the right goes to ground.

In the typical case of tone circuits, warmer means LESS HIGHS, NOT 'more lows'. The highs get dumped to ground through the cap/pot and are not heard. SO if you had a humbucker guitar that was too dark/warm, and it had a .047uf tone cap, you could put in a .033 or .022uf and brighten up the sound a bit (because the highs between .022 and .047 would now stay with the output signal to the amp; this is often done on Les Pauls).

If you had a Strat that was too bright, you could swap their .022uf to a .047 and darken the sound up some (send a wider range of higher freqs to ground).

If you didn't have a capacitor to filter out certain frequencies, the tone pot would just be another volume pot.

1 cap could service 2 tone pots, like in a Strat... sooner or later they all get connected to hot on one end and ground on the other. (On a Les Paul, with 2 pots and 2 caps, where you hook up the input of the caps determines how the volume controls work!)

FWIW, the new Delta Tone knobs have a position where the tone pot & cap are removed from the ciruit, making the output as full and loud as possible.


Here is a side note...if you had a really low value capacitor, like .00022uf, you could put that in series in the hot amp signal stream, and it would only pass frequencies above .00022 through to the amp. In this way you could filter out the low frequencies (keep them in the guitar so to speak), and brighten up the output/amp signal. The problem with this is you also change the volume of the ouput signal a lot because some of the bass signal can't get to the amp. I tried this in a PRS - works to easily allow different output tones on PUP selector push-pull pots, but otherwise usless. (though this is how treble and bass speaker systems work sort of - that is how the speaker signals get divided between cones - using caps or inductors to filter frequencies)

Okay you capacitor experts, I have one final question before I stop bugging people about this

What is the difference between these capacitors:
http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-192-sprag ... n-oil.aspx
http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-221-vinta ... citor.aspx
http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-199-sprag ... -02uf.aspx
http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-200-ajax- ... 022uf.aspx

way too many options and possibilities with capacitors! do these different capacitors with relatively identical uf values have pro's and con's? or is it difference not even noticeable?

http://greygum.net/sbench/sbench102/caps.html

Try this...The Sound of Capacitors.

Many think the capacitor 'build' contributes more to the tone then just normal control of high frequencies. Quality caps of course like Sprague Orange drops, mil-spec types etc. are supposed to be better then the stock ceramics which are so common. But some say the 'cheaper' ceramic caps can produce a built-in reverb effect.

I like upgrading mine to Mullard Tropical Fish, might not hear a difference, but at least they look cool!