Hi Everyone,
I'm about to lose what little mind I have left. My 2008 American Standard has an intonation problem that I just can't overcome. I dearly love this guitar because I have spent months converting it from the black body/white pickguard H/S/S to black pickguard S/S/S using black Gold Lace Sensors. I have read every article and on-line demo about adjusting intonation that I can find, with little success. Complicating the problem is I'm 80% deaf in my right ear and 60 % in my left (an hereditary condition) so I'm not sure that I'm really hearing the 12th fret harmonics correctly. I have heard that you can use an in-line guitar tuner to set intonation. Is this possible and has anyone ever used this method?

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September 18th, 1970
There were none better before him.
There have been none better since.

Hey Far,
Yes, that is how I set my intonation. Do not rely on your ears. I do 3 steps. First I hit the string to be intoned, say youe 6th string low E. I ensure that per the tuner it is in tune. I then go and fret the 12th fret of that string and see if it is tuning to E. If so then I move on to the harmonic of the 12th. Always rely on the tuner it is calibrated whereas our ears can fool us. Hope that this helps. If not email me and I will send you some articles on how to do it.
ABS

What is a reasonable expectation for adjusting intonation? Should every string be intonated exactly? How much off is acceptable? After a 25 year layoff from the guitar, I decided to get back into it with an initial modest investment. I purchased a Chinese made Starcaster, which out of the box had decent assembly quality and didn’t sound all that bad either. In order to “improve” the Starcaster, I adopted many of the suggestions that I read in several guitar forums. I replaced the Fender strings with Ernie Ball 2223 Super Slinkys. I also replaced the nut, string trees and saddles with Graph Tech Teflon impregnated components. Additionally, the inability of the guitar to stay in tune because of the tremolo (vibrato) drove me nuts. So, I screwed the tremolo solidly to the body and blocked the internal mechanism, essentially making it a fixed bridge; stays in tune nicely now. Being an engineer, I just had to readjust the neck, string heights and pickup heights to Fender specifications. Which brings me to the questions regarding intonation? Using a Planet Waves tuner, I cannot get all strings to intonate exactly. The first three strings are pretty much right on. However, the last three are a bit sharp (about one major division on the tuner). I have the low E string saddle screwed down to fully compressing the saddle spring. I suppose I can remove the spring and pull the saddle down a bit more. But should I bother? The guitar sounds OK to me…perhaps many years of target shooting have dulled my sense of hearing.

I'm not sure what type of bridge you have,but if your intonation on a string is sharp at the 12th fret,you need to lengthen the distance between the nut and saddle.
It's only reasonable that the intonation is right on the mark when checked with a tuner....which is it's in tune open,fretted at the 12th fret and the 12th fret harmonic.
Other things can come into play like pickup height,if one is too close it can cause problems.

to both Far and RAS -
I read this post with much interest as I am finally getting around to setting the intonation on my Amer. strat after locking down the trem. I would recommend a very good book 'How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great' by Dan Erlewine. In it he comments about how without being really careful, you can get false readings, such as touching the tuner while playing the note or not fretting the 12 fret note properly. Interesting stuff.

I think the three of us have common backgrounds too. I picked up the guitar after a 35 year layoff and am now loving every minute of it.
I'm also an engineer, which can be a curse in the search for mechanical perfection. I am also half deaf from riding motorcycles. Hell of a combination.
My approach now is if it sounds good to me, I'm not screwing with it. More time to play.

Good luck and keep me posted.

If you find that the fretted 12th is different than the open string, either sharp or flat, where do you go from there? Am I looking at another problem like an out of adjustment neck or something?

_________________
September 18th, 1970
There were none better before him.
There have been none better since.

As I understand it, that is what the intonation setting is for. If the 12th fret note does not equal the open string, you bring it into tune by adjusting the bridge saddle. It is also the last step in the complete setup process.

One comment I read is that it is good to install new strings 24 hours before setting intonation. Make sure you gently set the strings. Set intonation and wait 24 hours to re-check.

Hope this helps.

As has been said before, do not trust your ears. Human beings are fallable. Tuners are not. Providing they are functioning properly and are of decent quality, that is. If your ear disagrees with a good tuner then your ear is in error and it must be retrained so it recognises what proper tune sounds like. It is also possible the strings may be old and filled up with finger crud. The crud causes the harmonics to become a little out of wack sometimes and can make your ear disagree with the tuner since the fundamental frequency (measured by the tuner) may not jive with the harmonics (perceived by the ear).

Be sure when you are adjusting the intonation that all other aspects of the setup have been adjusted to your liking. Any changes you make after intonation adjustments may affect the state of tune and intonation. This is especially true with floating trems. Also be sure your strings are not old and your tuner is working properly and is of decent quality. Also, be sure to keep the entire guitar in perfect tune during the adjustment process. After each adjustment retune all the strings to ensure proper tension on the neck. Do this BEFORE checking the result of your recent adjustment and always double check your state of tune as adjusting the pitch of one string will affect the pitch of all the others.

That said, if the fretted 12th is flat the saddle should be moved closer to the neck. Likewise if the fretted 12th is sharp the saddle must be moved away from the neck. Remember that a little can go a long way and it is better to make small incremental adjustments. Remember to retune ALL the strings to pitch after each adjustment. Especially with a floating trem.

Good luck and happy picking.

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Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.

My new/old guitar was a mess. The neck was so bowed. I would say before you start any, thing make sure your neck is right! Are any of the frets higher ?? I would never try this with new strings, Play them for a while so your not chasing tuning ghosts all the time. But as with all of the other posts have good solid advice. Mark

Also make sure the nut is properly slotted. My Classic 60's Strat sat in the music store for quite a while before I came in worked out a deal on it. It had an intonation problem, which is why it didn't sell. I inspected the nut and found the angle was off on most of the slots. It was correctable, but I went ahead and installed a new vintage bone nut (StewMac) because the spacing was a little off, and filed the slots correctly. Intonation corrected.

If you place your pickups to close to the strings you will never get the guitar to intonate on the 12th fret low E string due to magnetic pull of the pickup. I always lower the pickups while setting intonation if there is any question that might be the problem. Then readjust the pickups in a position that is not affecting the intonation.

That said I have had to remove intonation spring in some cases to get the little extra lenght on the low E and G string. Also if the neck bow has to much forward bow it shortens the strings to the point where there is not enough lenght adjustment to compensate.

Also if you tightened the 6 tremolo screws down it will cause a problem. They need to be loose if you decked your tremolo using the springs in the tremolo cavity by screwing in the screws until the bridge is tight against the body. Just unscrew the 6 screws until there is no or very little tension on them.

All six string should intonate perfectly on the 12th fret and all the harmonics.

Then there is the issue of the frist 3 to 6 frets from the nut. If the nut is cut too high you will never get the string using that too high slot to be in tune when you fret the guitar on the first 3 to 6 frets. If the nut is cut to low you will get a buzz on fret one and maybe two if it is way too low.

If the nut is cut perfect and theintonation is perfectly set then you need to tune the unwound G just a tad bit flat due to the nature of it being so thin and unwound so it will be in tune over the majority of the fretboard.

Thomas

Last night I used my Korg in-line tuner and was shocked how far out both the tuning and intonation were. I took my time and adjusted everything slowly and painstakingly. After about 30 minutes my baby was playable. Not perfect but a 1000% better. It really should be looked at by a pro, but I have been having trouble locating a good guitar tech in my state. Believe it or not, the only authorized Fender repair center in my state has a luthier that, shall we say, doesn't represent Fender very well. I sent a note to Fender Consumer Relations to give you an idea how upset I was. Anyway, thanks again for all of the great suggestions and tips.

_________________
September 18th, 1970
There were none better before him.
There have been none better since.

It pays to learn how to do your own setup.Every guitar is a little different and the specs are a starting point.When you do it yourself you can work out the small details as you play and get it right for your style.
I mentioned this once before,I have a friend who has played longer than I have,and that's a long time,but he has never learned to set up his guitars and has to rely on others to do it for him....he will find a small problem like a buzz or a note fretting out and call somebody or take it to Guitar Center....then it will be hit or miss,and in a couple of months he will find something else and do it all over again...it's pointless.
I could do it for him but he is hardly ever satisfied,and will bug the life out of you.
I find it amusing.

Ras,

Everybody seemed to have answered all your questions EXCEPT they did not understand 1 important part. The fact that your intonation was sharp, and you did the right thing, by trying to lengthen the string. You reach the limit of the saddles!, they can't go any further. What do you do? You can't increase the length anymore.

Well, if you look at the "stratocaster set up guide" on the fender support website, look at the "intonation section". There is a subtle, and very clever thing you can do. If you look at the descriptoin of how to intonate the guitar, it says to use the string gauges to decide how far to move consecutive saddles back. Your problem is that it cant go back far enough. So waht do you do? Try lighter gauges!! and if you are using super extra lights 8's, you might be screwed.

I ran into this problem with my low E string. The intonation was still sharp and the saddle would not go back any further because the spring was completely compressed. So I took the saddle off, snipped the spring in half with some cutters, and wala, was able to correctly intonate the string.

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