When you ground or shield a guitar what you are not doing is protecting it from mains interference. If the mains voltage hits your guitar, you won't need to worry about noise whilst your picking yourself up. Your protecting your guitar against your bodies own electrical field (yes everything that moves generates one to some degree). Hence the need for trem grounding and cavity shielding. The cavity sheilding takes your bodies electrical field and grounds it through the amp. When you touch the trem/strings the trem takes your bodies natural electricity and grounds it through the same circuit.

It's why guitars get quieter when you touch the strings.

It's not essential to use electric guitar strings on a electric guitar but you will need the pickups a lot closer to the strings to get em to sound anywhere near acceptable. Don't bother with nylon strings as they don't disturb the magnetic field of the pickup much at all. Therefore produce very little.

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No no and no

Wow I have way too much to say and I think I'm going to break it up into two posts cause there's two major topics I think should be discussed.

Here's my Electromagnetism 101 lesson for the day...





Actually, nylon strings won't produce any sound at all. The reason why pickups generate sound is because they have magnets which create a magnetic dipole in any conductive material within proximity. When the guitar string is brought close to the magnet, the magnet in turn magnetizes the string, so you have in essence two magnets within proximity of one another. When the string is vibrated, you essentially have one magnet oscillating with respect to another magnet - it is this oscillatory change in magnetic field which is what creates the magnetic flux that induces current in the pickup coil. If you're using non-metal strings, the strings can't be magnetized. And moreover, the oscillatory current created in the coil is of course directly related to the vibration of the string.

Therefore, if your strings are not made of conductive metal, there's no varying magnetic field, no flux, no current induced in the coil, and no sound. Your electric guitar's strings must be made of some kind of metal - stainless steel, nickel, or what have you, in order to make any sound at all.




You are correct in thinking that it is a ground wire; that wire grounds the circuitry within the guitar to the trem and springs, as well as to the chassis in your amp and to the ground plug in your AC outlet. And you are also correct in saying that the strings get polarized by being near the pickups - this is also true.



Almost correct. Yes your body does have a natural electromagnetic field. But my guess is that it's too weak to really introduce a noticeable amount of noise into an electrical system. What's really happening is that your body acts like an antenna, picking up stray electromagnetic fields from elsewhere. These occur around tons of different electrical devices like TVs and computers as well as AC outlets. But yes, when you touch the strings, the guitar circuitry grounds your body, so that any electromagnetic interference your body picks up is shunted to ground. Hence the guitar gets quieter when you touch the strings.



I don't really agree with this. The voltage from the AC mains is only used to operate the amplifier. The amplifier is simply taking a very tiny signal generated by your pickup coils and amplifying it to a signal large enough to drive a speaker, and it needs to take the AC voltage in order to accomplish this. But the guitar doesn't need ANY voltage to drive the tiny induced current from the pickup to the amp. The pickup does it by itself. I mean, think about it, regular guitars don't plug into the wall, nor do they have a battery, nor do they require any other power source at all! (Sure active pickups need batteries but that's because they do on-board amplification - totally different case.) None of the AC voltage is sent to your guitar - in fact, if it did, you'd probably get fried. Imagine playing a guitar that had 110volts on it. That's seriously dangerous. No way could something like that be legal.

Oh and by the way, the whole "everything that moves generates an electrical field to some degree" is also inaccurate. Does a plastic ball rolling along the street create a magnetic field? of course not. How about an uncharged metal ball swinging on a rope like a pendulum? Nope, not that either. Magnetic fields occur where there are magnetic dipoles present or current flowing, which is what happens in your brain when electrons are firing. That's pretty much it. This is why I say that for all intents and purposes the EM field created by your body is negligible - because the currents occurring in your body are so small to begin with. Your guitar circuitry has way bigger EM fields present that it has to deal with, like the 60 cycle hum from the outlet.



While this is the standard practice for fender guitars, as well as a lot of guitars and amps in general, a few of the really respected amp builders at 18watt told me that soldering directly to the casing of the potentiometer is bad practice, because the intense heat of the soldering iron can compromise the internal workings of the potentiometer. This makes complete sense to me. I'd rather shield the pickguard and mount the pot directly to the shielding, thus allowing the ground connection to be made in that manner. Less wire = less stray EM fields picked up = less noise, and your pot is completely unexposed to harmful heat. In fact, if your pickguard is shielded, soldering additional ground connections from pot to pot is actually creating ground loops, which also is both unnecessary and bad practice. That being said, I have soldered to potentiometer casings before, and while I've never damaged a pot yet, I have become extremely frustrated trying to get the casing of some pots to accept the solder.

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life is too short for bad tone.

Part 2 of my unbelievably long tirade. Sometimes I swear I have no life.



Doi!!!
Completely overlooked conversion bushings. This is by far the easiest way to go.



nikininja - you're absolutely right in believing that one piece vs. multi piece is a very minute change in tone, if at all. You're also right in believing that other things, such as pickups, hardware, string type, string gauge, scale length, etc. all influence tone more than body construction. You are absolutely right. And I also agree that there is a lot of corksniffing involved here - for example, many swear they can hear the difference between poly and nitro. And I think they're full of it. I will be the first to admit that I would not hear ANY difference between a multi-piece body and a one-piece, and perhaps my reasons are largely aesthetic. And, I will be the first to say that after a little tweaking and changing pickups, my mexican strat has sounded WAY better than some fender custom shops directly off the shelf. And, I will be the first to say that telling customers that one-piece makes that big of a tonal difference simply to push more expensive guitars is morally wrong, because it DOESNT make that big of a difference, if at all.

BUT. And there IS a but.

Let's do a thought experiment.

Let's say you bought a $300 guitar. Whether or not you think one piece vs. multi piece makes a tonal difference, you probably won't be bothered by the fact that your guitar is multi-piece. Why? Because you didn't pay much for it. You understand that cost-cutting techniques like multi-piece bodies pretty much come with the territory when buying a guitar of that price range.

Now let's say you bought a $1500 guitar. Would you care if the body on a $1500 guitar was multi-piece? Even if it didn't make a tonal difference, keep in mind that making bodies from several pieces of wood is a cost-cutting technique... and you're paying a grand and a half for a guitar.

How about on a $3000 guitar? Would you care about the one-piece then?

A $5000 guitar? How about then?

Now, another scenario. Let's say that you had a choice between two $5000 guitars, and the only difference was that one was a one-piece and one was a multi-piece. Would you have ANY reason to go for the multi-piece over the one-piece?

The bottom line is that multi-piece bodies are bad practice. It is poorer workmanship, and it is a cost-cutting technique. And if you have already made the decision to spend a lot of money on a high-end guitar, there is a point where you should DEMAND better workmanship regardless of the negligible difference in tone (that is, if there even is a difference at all!) Just like how the difference between a shielded guitar and unshielded could possibly be so minute that you don't hear the difference, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't shield it because it's just better practice.

So if someone is going to ask for the difference, or a recommendation, about one-piece or multi-piece, I think it is wrong to say "There's no difference." I think the correct answer is, "There IS a difference - whether in workmanship, theoretical physics, or otherwise - but if you're looking to build a guitar out of random parts, or trying to keep cost down, you absolutely should not lose sleep over it because the sonic difference, if existent at all, is so minute that it's not worth the extra money." I trust the original poster is smart enough to weigh his budget against the options and make an informed decision, so long as he is given the straight facts.

That will be all.

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life is too short for bad tone.

Sorry I just don't see how it's bad practice. Find me a one piece vintage Fender. It's not a cost cutting measure as much as it's a requirement of certain species of tree. They just dont grow wide/thick enough to produce a lump of lumber big enough to carve a one piece body. Builders like Fender do it because they use their waste. They dont buy lumber in 3x3 strips with a view to glue it together. What happens is that the different segments of the company have a order in which timber is divided. CustomShop first then production line.
Multipiece bodies for solid colours





Also I didn't say every moving thing produces a magnetic field. Every moving thing produces a form of electricity. Or a more accurate statement would be every moving thing contains energy.
As for not soldering to the backs of pots, so every guitar builder since 1948, and two of the worlds most respected pickup builders have been doing it wrong, but a bunch of guys over at 18watt can point em in the right direction? Sounds like a bad joke to me, or something concocted by someone who cant use a soldering iron. Why does anyone need excessive contact when soldering? Ok you can destroy any component when you apply enough heat. So Tell you what, later on when I need a break, I'll get my mini blowtorch that blows at 1200c and a old pot and photograph how long it takes to destroy a pot at that temperature which is just shy of 5 times a soldering irons temperature.
I reckon that will be interesting.

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No no and no

nikininja, your understanding of physics is laughable, and to an educated person you look like a fool more and more with each post.



See? I mean, where in god's name do you come up with this stuff?! I would go so far as to say that your confidence in your own understanding of science does everyone else on this forum a disservice.

"every moving thing produces a form of electricity." NO!! While it is true that every moving thing has kinetic energy associated with it, you need SOME form of energy conversion interface, such as a generator, in order to get ANY kind of electricity out of a regular moving object. If you get hit in the face with a baseball, do you get shocked at the same time??

"Also I didn't say every moving thing produces a magnetic field... it produces a form of electricity."

Let's assume that this statement was even remotely correct. If you understood physics you would know that electricity and magnetism are INTERCONNECTED PHENOMENA. Where you find electric currents, MAGNETISM OCCURS. And where you have magnetism in proximity of a conductor, CURRENT OCCURS. That's why it's called ELECTROMAGNETISM, and if you truly understood how pickups work, this wouldn't have to be explained to you. THAT is why human beings produce a minute magnetic field - because of tiny currents occurring within the chemistry of the body. Again, WHERE THERE IS ONE, THERE IS THE OTHER.





Just because Fender or Gibson or Marshall did it that way for 50 years DOES NOT MEAN IT'S GOOD PRACTICE. It has simply become routine. It's a bad tradition, a tradition that lacks a sense of innovation and continuous self-improvement. (I mean, if you think Fender has seriously innovated anything since the birth of the vintage reissue and the american standard in the 80s, take a pencil and stick it in your eye.) After all, Fender guitars today are completely unshielded, and that is terrible practice. Fender tremolo blocks have huge hunks of metal taken off of them to save money and THAT is terrible practice. Lots of speaker cabinets today use particle board and THAT is terrible practice. And while these three examples seem to me to be a quick and clean end to the argument, I have a much better example to illustrate this point.

Back in the 60s, when Jim Marshall was making the amplifiers that would go on to become some of the most famous in the world - the JTM45 and so on - he would use the wrong value for components all the time if he didn't have the ones he needed within reach. If the schematic called for a 100k resistor, but he didn't have one, he would find a 120k or whatever was closest that was lying around. This resulted in big tonal variances from amp to amp, and back then it was more crucial than today to make sure you played the amp you were going to buy. One amp was not necessarily representative of the tone of another amp of the same year, make, and model. This is essentially a lack in quality control. While those Marshall amps were great, the credit for launching them into legendary status had a lot more to do with the fact that Hendrix, Clapton and other bigwigs were using them - and let's face it, those guys sounded good no matter WHAT amp they were using.

Don't forget that the integrity of the components used back then was also worse than those used today. Values of resistors from back then would drift, whereas resistors from today don't have that issue nearly as badly, nor do they pick up as much noise. When you say that "it hasn't been changed in 50 years," you think that that's a good thing. When in reality it's a BAD thing because some of these practices really should have evolved over the years but didn't because these companies continued to cut corners. You really should check out the tech info at Aiken amps and school yourself. Now there is a guy who really knows his stuff.

Oh, and your comment of "bunch of guys over at 18watt" is extremely disrespectful. Unlike the demographic of this board, who are in general guitar hobbyists (and there is nothing wrong with that), the moderators and majority of the community at 18watt are extremely seasoned electrical engineers and amp builders who have RIPPED APART vintage Marshall 18watt amplifiers to study, and combined it with their electrical engineering experience to reproduce those amps today whose engineering practices far exceed those used by those vintage amps and many mass-produced amps today. Quite frankly given the fact that your understanding of high school physics is a joke, I would absolutely trust their judgment over yours, any day of the week.

But yeah... have fun with your blowtorch.

Ok so my 04 american deluxe, thats got a good thick layer of sheilding paint, is unshielded? As is my 06 customclassic, as is my 03 mexican powerhouse body. I wonder what that stuff is doing in there?

Ok because something like soldering to the back of a potentiometer doesn't meet the high standards of a bunch of engineers, it's no good. Why aren't these people currently designing amps for Fender, Peavey and Marshall? They'd be making a fortune. Also Marshall moved to pcb boards around 74/76. I've yet to see one (have owned 6, currently own 2) with the back of any pot soldered.

Oh yeah I got up to 3 minutes on a 50K pot I had kicking around, with the blowtorch at 1200c. Make of that what you will. It's still a far cry from a second or two with a soldering iron at what 400c with the average 40 watt iron.

Here's the pic's

one open backed 50k pot and a mini blowtorch



Strip it down ant take a look at the insides.





As you can see, no real damage. A bit of melting of the exposed plastic washer section, but nothing to the carbon trace or the shaft.
All in all I'd have to conclude that soldering to the back of a potentiometer makes not one scrap of difference if you don't use plumbers solder and a blowtorch.

And yeah your right, when it comes to physics, I know next to nothing. I can wire a plug and that's about it. Hey at least I don't split hairs then take on a derogatory, insulting manner with someone who was paying attention and in fact learning a bit. Guess it's true, a bit of class makes the world of difference.

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No no and no

yeah fine, the pot still worked. You still didn't address the fact that soldering wires to the backs of the pots causes ground loops and picks up additional noise.



If you know you know next to nothing then why do you argue to the death as if you do, with someone you know does? Like I said, you look like a fool. I'd rather be the mean guy who's right, than the "kind of" nice guy who's wrong.

The proliferation of misinformation through ignorance is in a way more dangerous than the proliferation of misinformation through lies. At least when you lie, you have to know the truth and choose to inform otherwise - and your demeanor can give you away. But through ignorance you yourself don't even know you're wrong, and someone else in a position of need would be much more likely to believe you.

Hopefully next time you take a stance of humility that matches your lack of knowledge, as I do when I'm talking with experienced engineers and guitar/amp builders, because I KNOW they know way more than I do.

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life is too short for bad tone.

You two killed this thread. After reading through all of this i can't even remember wha the original post was about. I hope you're happy with your selves.

the OP just needs to buy himself a new or preowned guitar w/o all the problems.
the MIM are cheap enough and play rather nicely. screw the jacked guitar your working on.

Wow. What happened to this simple, friendly thread since the last time I looked at it?

I'm seeing the word "ignorant" hurled around rather freely. That's pretty unpleasant, and if it's going to be done at all people had better REALLY know what they are talking about.

However, the following for instance is just plain wrong:

In fact, if you run nylon strings across magnetic pickups you do get output. To be sure, it is very low compared to metal strings and you will have to turn a clean channel right up on the amp to hear it clearly. However, the signal is there.

Don't take my word. Try it.

The explanation being that in nature everything interferes with electro-magnetic flux. Nylon, wood, our bodies, and of course metal - to a much greater degree.

Let's be friendly on this Forum. There ain't any of us that don't have stuff to learn.

Cheers - C

We're part of the family of Fender Strat lovers on here. We can all play nice in the sandbox. Doesn't mean sand doesn't get down someones shorts once in awhile. Oh well. Life goes on! I'd like to just see the end results of the purpose of the thread. What happens next to the guitar...with pics!

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"Epitaph on a blues musician’s tombstone: “I didn’t wake up this morning”" Davy Knowles


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"Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong."-Dandemis

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

I got the guitar put together, I used the other neck and roughed out a peghead, then put the tuners in it. After a trot to Walmart for a $5 set of electric guitar strings I then set about refining the guitar. The neck needed to have the proper relief put in it, okay toyed with the truss rod till I got it right. The bridge needed all 6 of the string bridges set, so I did that, the pickups needed to be height adjusted, so I did that. Then I tried it out thru my electro 40 watt tube amp and it works. The 5 way switch works the 3 pickups work. I also found some old green with metal flake spray paint (had bought it a few years back to redo an old 1970 Yamaha CS3C motorcycle but never used it), It is darker than "sea mist" but not quite and emerald color and the silver metalic metal flake in it is pretty cool. Will spray a clear over top of it once i have all the coats on that I want. I used the paint to paint the body of the kit I borrowed all the other stuff from-the tuners, the bridge, the other neck etc..

My questions-also posted in another spot on this forum are this- 1)What exactly is the point to having 3 pickups that are basically all sounding the same?

2)the 2 tone controls seem to adjust volume more than tone. When set on 1 you can barely hear the guitar, when set on 5 the guitar sounds different not just louder although that seems to be the biggest thing and 10 gets you really loud. And the volume knob remained in the same position the entire time.

What is the point to having the 5 way switch-I can figure positions 1-3-5 are for neck, mid and bridge pickups but the 2 &4 seem to combine the neck and mid or mid and bridge. Again, since I do not hear much of a difference in between the pickups, why-Is one supposed to do say lead work around the middle pickup, power chords down near the base and rythmic play up on the neck-would that help to clarify what each pickup is suppossed to be for?

Last question-the guitar tunes and stays in tune pretty well-But intonation up the neck is off-it is flat, which generally means I have to shorten the string length. How can I do that when the neck is a direct bolt in and the bridge block set is already extended all the way towards the neck?

Input is appreciated.

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So heres to your survival, swimming up the stream, crossing over one dam after another till we get to Rock and Roll Heavens Gate!

wow, lots of questions....

Purpose of three pickups.... they should sound a little different...
Position 1) Neck pickup should sound somewhat mellow/bluesey, not as bright.
Position 2) Neck and Middle pickup should sound a little like a mellow/basey "Quack", think Robert Cray.
Position 3) Middle position only gives you a strong output without sharp bite
Positon 4) Middle and Bridge gives you a sharper quack with little base
Position 5) Bridge only has a sharp bite/attack to it, really rock like tone.

As for tone knob, you may not have it all wired right because when the tone control is used, the sound changes. to a very basey tone. Volume is not really affected.

Innotation. Check the fender setup guide. Unless you have a shorter scale neck, you should be able to set it up correctly... Also note, if you pickups are too high, the magnets will pull the strings and give you a false out of tune/innotation.

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"Epitaph on a blues musician’s tombstone: “I didn’t wake up this morning”" Davy Knowles


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