some of you may have read I recently acquired a strat basket case that at some point had been routed for some other bridge assembly and left the trem area with a gapping 2.5X normal size hole. I was deciding how to fill the hole-wood putty, wood-if so which species since I am not sure if the body is ash or alder, or just use an aftermarket body and attach the neck and move the electronics over to it. but then the aftermarket body idea presented its own type of problems-like how to fill the wood pores and then what to paint it.

So after much consideration it became a light bulb moment. I would use spruce and carefully cut and trim the wood down to the size I needed to plug the routed at space. So I removed the spring cover, inserted my clamp and after wood glueing, I clamped the spruce plug into place and left it dry overnight. Following day I wood puttyied the top (to bring it perfectly into contour with the body). Now all that is left is to paint the patch area.

The reason I choose spruce is because it should not interfer with the natural tone of the existing wood and I had plenty of it around. I mean many acoustic instrument tops are made of spruce. so it has resinance capabilities.

What do you folks think? Sorry I can't post pictures as my home internet is down and the work one won't let us upload anything.

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So heres to your survival, swimming up the stream, crossing over one dam after another till we get to Rock and Roll Heavens Gate!

Good thinking! It should be fine now!

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!

If it were me, I'd get a painted body off Ebay. There are some legit sellers on there if you do your homework. Too many variables to comment on your repair. If it turns out you like it, congratulations. What model is it anyway? Is it Nitro or Poly? How will you get the paint to match?

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-Kirk

GUITARS
'12 Sonoran Acoustic - black (dated 10/31/12)
'13 Standard Strat
AMP
Vox ac4c1-bl
PEDALS
Compressor
Big Muff
Vox Stomplab 1G
Carbon Copy Delay

The reason that spruce is used in acoustic instruments is that it is a soft wood and vibrates freely when cut into 1/8-1/4 " thick board for guitar tops.Being a fairly soft wood I'm not sure about it's sound and vibration transfer when used in a block form.You would have probably been better off using a hard wood such as ash or alder as they have proven tonal transfer properties.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

Valid point. I was thinking something along that line as well as I read the post. Then again, isn't Steve Morse's signature Music Man model made out of Poplar at some point?

_________________
-Kirk

GUITARS
'12 Sonoran Acoustic - black (dated 10/31/12)
'13 Standard Strat
AMP
Vox ac4c1-bl
PEDALS
Compressor
Big Muff
Vox Stomplab 1G
Carbon Copy Delay

Spruce may have resonance qualities when used thinly for tops in guitars, mandolins and other acoustic instruments, but lets not forget it IS used in building material-ie 2X4 2X6 etc when studding is needed and walls are to be built. The piece I used is a hunk of 2X6 that I ended up cutting down with a jig saw to the size I needed. I am not really concerned about it being "strong enough" as evidenced by its use in wall construction. Yes since I have a mountain ash growing in my yard I could have taken a piece of dead branch off of it and used it. A harder wood than spruce?-probably but then again we are talking about a piece (the plug) being 1" X 1.25" by 3" long. Sure Ic ould have searched the web for a bridge system that would have fit that hole (thats what it was routed for) maybe for years with no luck. But it is still my understanding that an electric guitar does not rely on the body for sound but rather the pickups.

As for how I am gonna paint the body-well since it will always be apparent that the area was patched AND I really like the dark dark navy blue the body is-I thought about covering my patch with a big ole painted on "knee bandage" and really make light of it, since it is doubtful that I would ever get a color off the shelf to match the shiny vibrant dark dark blue that this guitar is.

And as someone else mentioned I did just win a strat kit on ebay that has a new body (unfinished) so I can do what ever I want to that body and then move the electronics over to it anytime after the wood pores are filled, sanded, then it is painted and allowed to cure.

_________________
So heres to your survival, swimming up the stream, crossing over one dam after another till we get to Rock and Roll Heavens Gate!

You could do a couple things. Wood glue and saw dust could work, you could plug it with a dowel rod, or you could just fill it in with putty. It all really depends on what the finish is going to end up being. Sounds like someone tried to put an American or Wilkson type tremolo on it...

_________________
"Epitaph on a blues musician’s tombstone: “I didn’t wake up this morning”" Davy Knowles


facebook.com/313DBC

a few points.



The concern is not about the wood being "strong enough"; it's about the wood being dense and hard, which allows for better sustain. It seems to me that resonance is on one side of the spectrum (i.e. less dense, lighter wood) and sustain is on the other (more dense, heavier wood), and you generally are looking for resonance in acoustic or hollowbody instruments. A strat, being a solidbody guitar, should, (at least in my opinion) be on the sustain side of the spectrum. The fact that it has a tremolo which is inherently a big sustain killer in and of itself suggests to me that it needs all the mass it can get (in the body, in the strings, etc). Also consider the fact that you're using this soft wood in the most vital part of the guitar body, the bridge routing.



Pickups are definitely the most influential component of the electric guitar but wood types and tremolo assemblies definitely affect sustain, which I consider an integral part of tone...


Oh and one additional point. Wood is very finicky, it likes to expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity. If you glue two different types of wood together they might expand and contract at different rates? I mean I've seen guitars where this is done so I guess it's not a big deal, still something to consider.

In general, whenever I have to plug holes in wood, I always try to match it with the same type of wood and same grain direction. From a theoretical standpoint this seems to me to be the best course of action. However I wouldn't be surprised if your plug job went just fine, and the strat body was completely usable. I just would not have gone in that direction myself. To each his own, and best of luck with your project. Post pictures!!

Supah:
Your points are well taken. I have openly admited in the past that I am new to guitars and brand new to electric guitars (this will be my first).

Today I received the "strat kit" I got off ebay. It has almost everything EXCEPT the electronics, which the old one has. It is missing some parts, but then again I knew that when I bought it. But the most important ones are there-the trem, the claw, some screws, tuners a new neck and another body. What I found when I BRIEFLY-as in was running out the door to come to work examined it that the tuner holes in the old strat neck were drilled out big as well-god only knows why. The new tuners will fit, but the ferrels just rattle around in the holes as they were drilled that large. My choices as I see them:

1) use the non Fender neck (the kit neck) and shape the peghead any way I want

2)try to find dowel rods in the correct size to cut, sand and glue into place before redrilling them to the proper size.

3) find another way to fill in the old tuner holes and then mount the new tuners. Something like wood putty, but I do not think it will hold well considering the tension the strings put on the ferrels and tuners.

I have restored a few old banjos and mandolins before so I am pretty good at figuring out what needs to be done. I have never cut, glued and drilled dowel rods to use as tuner fillers before. Anybody have suggestions?

Janice

_________________
So heres to your survival, swimming up the stream, crossing over one dam after another till we get to Rock and Roll Heavens Gate!

I think your over emphasising the whole tone wood thing. Think about it, theres a load of glue inbetween whatever timber you use to fill the gap and the body of the guitar, probably grain filler too. Also electric guitar's aren't like acoustic guitars. The majority of the way they sound is down to the hardware on em. Never mind a small portion of the guitar being blocked by a differing kind of wood. Also when spruce is refered to as a neutral tonewood, I'm pretty sure the idea behind the statement is that it favours neither bass or treble over the other. In the spirit of fair play I'd like to see evidence to prove my interpretation of that wrong.

Think about it like that, then think, is a relatively soft wood going to give me the structural integrity I need at that point?

For trem/bridge and neck joints, maple is your friend.

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No no and no

Janice -


Hey man, the first one is always magical Like I said I want to see pics when you're done!

If the tuner ferrules are just rattling around in the holes, the holes are definitely too big. That strat neck might have been drilled for a different style of tuners, so one additional option is to find out what size they are and get appropriate tuners. This is the quickest option, but also the most expensive (considering you already have the other parts).

If you dont mind going through the trouble of shaping the kit neck then more power to ya

If you want to use the strat neck with the mismatched holes, but don't want to go with a different set of tuners, then you have to plug and redrill. Definitely do not use putty, that won't be nearly as strong enough. You have to fill the hole with wood, preferably the same wood as the neck (most likely maple) and use probably hide glue, which is commonly used as a luthiery glue. Again in my opinion the best bet is to fill it with dowels in which the grain runs in the same direction as the neck, for the best stability. In general it's better to be putting holes into side grain than end grain - this is at the least definitely true for screws. Also I've looked online at people filling tuner holes and this is what they seem to do. The problem is, when you get dowel rod at the store, the grain runs parallel to the cylindrical axis of the dowel. You want dowel rod where the grain runs perpendicular to the dowel... which in general you're not really going to find.

So what i would do in your case is find a plug cutter bit which will do dowels to the right size of the holes, as tight of a fit as you can do, and cut the dowels yourself out of the side of a block of maple. I would probably use a plug cutter that does straight dowels rather than tapered but some people might cut a tapered hole and then use tapered dowels...

Pro: You can cut as many dowels as you want with the grain running in the correct direction.
Con: You WILL need a drill press. Believe me, I've tried this with a hand drill and it can't be done (unless you're using one of those self-centering bits specifically for a hand drill)

You sand or do whatever you must to the dowels to get a snug fit, then line it with hide glue and tap it in with a rubber mallet. When it's dry, cut the excess off and sand flush. Also you're probably going to want to drill and plug the screw holes in the same manner.

I'm not really an experienced woodworker but this is what I think a luthier would do in your situation. Try to get some more experienced opinions, at least from some other forums, and maybe do some more research before you go crazy on the neck. Here's some Google links, hopefully they help.

http://savethebanjos.com/DGM2/Peghead.htm
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Blogs/37D28/37d28_2.html
This guy MADE a plug cutter. Now THAT is bad $@!.




I'm not overemphasizing anything. There's a reason why one piece bodies cost more - because they DIDNT glue multiple pieces together. It's pure wood. Using glue where it's not necessary to cut costs is a hallmark of cheaper manufacture. The bottom line is that different materials will allow vibrations to pass through them differently. It's simple physics. I also agree that hardware has a lot to do with it, but I'm saying, if you want to know the 100% correct way to do it, that's the way to do it. I've put together enough guitars on the affordable route... especially enough to know what I like and what I dont like on a guitar, which is ultimately the goal of that experimentation. these days, if I'm going to spend money on a guitar, I'm going to save up the money to do it right, and pay attention to every part on the guitar.

Ok so prove to me that a one piece body sounds any different from a multi piece body.
That means all the hardware and probably the same neck used on each body. With the same setup. Both recorded with no added effects, just straight into a bare bones amp, and the change over in realtime too please.
There's the challenge.


Far as I'm concerned it's a nonsense used to take more money from the gullible where electric instruments are concerned. Gibson have made a fortune for by charging more for multi piece bodies, even to the point of calling their single piece bodied guitars 'jr's'.

It's not a acoustic guitar, it doesn't rely on body wood as it's voice or a soundbox as it's amplifier. It's a electric guitar that relies on electronics. Wood vibration plays so little a part on string vibration in the case of a electric instrument, it doesn't alter the way the string vibration interacts with the magnetic field of the pickup to any appreciable degree.

That's my understanding of it.

_________________
No no and no

Hi people.

Regarding use of spruce in electric guitar bodies: I posted this link just a couple of days ago, but at the risk of boringly repeating it here's masterbuilder Ron Kirn making a whole Strat body out of spruce, never mind just a little fill. If it's good enough for Ron...:

http://www.ronkirn.com/tutorial/index.htm

Regarding combining different types of wood in a single solid body: never heard anyone complaining about structural or tonal issues when that is done in Les Pauls, PRSs, Hamers - and dozens of others. Some makers use a spruce top on a body made from a different wood.

I don't think it's a worry.

And regarding tuners loose in their pegholes: there are broadly two sizes of peghole, "vintage" 11/32" and "modern" 13/32", the latter more often refered to as 10mm. If your tuners are very loose in their holes you are probably attempting to fit vintage tuners into modern holes. The simple solution to this is to buy conversion bushings:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Tune ... gtiid=3456

Much cheaper than new tuners; SO much easier than plugging and redrilling.

Any help?

Cheers - C

Supah:
In your responce you posted a link to a very dear friend of mine's site (www.savethebanjos.com). Tim Smith has been a close friend for years and I learned a lot from him about restoring old banjos-my first love (in the way of musical instruments). Yes Tim IS VERY resourceful and he is another one that does not get real hung up on what is absolutely essential-just what will work and not compromise the intergrity or resonance of the banjo-or guitar and yes he has worked on all forms of acoustic instruments.

C: as always your input is very much appreciated

Today I decided to kill some time and cut and shape the peghead on the non fender neck that came with the kit. I used a jigsaw to get the rough shape I wanted and will spend tomorrow night sanding it down to the final shape. I decided it was probably better at least the ferrels will fit those holes and the tuners can than be mounted.

IS is ESSENTIAL that electric guitar strings be used on an electric? Reason why I ask is that I have plenty of acoustic guitar strings and some banjo strings, but the heavier guage strings for acoustic are bronze wound. I do not know if the pickups would transfer the sound or not. Other than that the tremelo unit fits and is in place The acoustic strings have balls on the ends.

I suspect that the black wire coming from the trem is a ground wire. Do I hook that into a black wire off the electronics (there is a black wire that is just dangling there that is a ground. All of this is new to me. Why does the trem need grounding? It has no power going to it, or is it because the strings get polarized by running across the magnetic pickups and therefore the trem needs the ground to neutralize any hum?

As you can see I have so many questions.

_________________
So heres to your survival, swimming up the stream, crossing over one dam after another till we get to Rock and Roll Heavens Gate!

No just solder the black wire from the tremolo claw to the underside of one of the pots (usually volume, though it doesnt matter as their all grounded together). You have more room to manouvre there.

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No no and no