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Post subject: this strat kinda looks like mine
Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:09 pm
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Nice taste, it kinda looks like mine!!
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now with black pickguard:
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Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:39 pm
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Ceri wrote:
Hi Kozy: it's a good email. In all seriousness, while some of us get a buzz from wrestling with this sort of thing it is not what you expect from a product you paid money for, even if not at a premium price.

That photo of the rear trem cavity should get you your money back regardless of all the rest. I don't know the gentleman in question and wish him no ill will. But draw his attention to this thread why not? It's a banged to rights case for a full refund including postage, or my name's not Cassius Clay.

This thread is doing the gentleman's reputation no favors. He'll want to put that right by showing you some fine customer care, for sure.

Good luck - C

PS And friendly greetings and good wishes to Kurt at Rondo Music, if you're looking in, sir. :)


Thanks Ceri. Kurt did reply to my email with some questions which I answered, providing a photo of the trem cavity. I'm hoping for the best in working with him.

If he gives me resistance, I will send him a link to this thread, where he can see the reasoning behind why the body won't work as is.

I keep y'all posted :)

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'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:55 am
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Well, I did receive a response back from Kurt at Rondo. His position is that this body is just fine based on the distance between the 12th fret and D-String saddle. Here is the email thread beginning with his first response to my first email:

--------------------

Thanks Mark - What is the distance between the D string saddle and the 12th fret of the guitar when you install the neck ?

What scale length neck did you purchase ?


kurt
---------

Hi Kurt,


I have a 21 fret standard scale Fender neck. The distance from the middle of the 12th fret and the leading edge of the D-string saddle is just about 12 and 5/8 inches (320.5 mm).

From my experience, in order to maintain intonation you must have a distance is 25.5 inches from the fretside inner edge of the nut to the d-string saddle's leading edge. The middle of the 12 fret is the exact mid point, meaning the distance of 12 and 5/8 inches is still just about 1/8 inch or 3 mm short.

I also checked to see if the neck cavity was perhaps an 1/8 inch or 3 mm longer, with the idea that maybe I could be successful in backing the neck out that distance to make up the difference. No luck -- the neck cavity is exactly 3 inches long, which would leave me short in bolting down my neck.

Also, I explored the notion that I could just slide the 6 point tremolo assembly back toward the butt-end of the body to make up the space. That caused the right side edge of the trem cavity just above the tremolo arm hole on the bridge to be exposed -- this also caused the trem block to be pushed against the butt-side edge of the spring claw cavity, restricting it's pivot point. On top of all this, with the neck snugged into the cavity, a fully loaded pickguard with with three potentiometers gets hitched up on the lower end of the electronic cavity to the degree that I cannot flush the pick guard to the surface of the body.

It's a real shame, because the wood grain on this body is just beautiful. But I think it warrants mention -- the tremolo cavity on this body is very poorly routed, to the degree that it's quite obviously the critical problem area. I've attached a photo.

If it's at all possible I'd gladly exchange this body for one with all the cavities in the proper positions. Please advise on whether this is an option.

Otherwise, as I said, this body will not work without major reworking and carpentry. And it certainly will not set-up as it is with the standard parts I have which are designed to drop in all strat style guitars.

I'm hoping to leave my options open to exchange this for a body I can use. Please advise

Thanks, Mark Kozera

[img][img]http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee34/Mercury7Music/trem_cav.jpg[/img]

--------------

Based on the data you send below - it sounds like the body is fine and the body neck combination is fine. - You indicated the distance from neck to the saddle is 12 5/8" - I assume, but did not ask that this measurment is when the saddle is in it's middle possition and there should be at least 10 mm of adjustability (total) in the saddle ? If so you should be able to acheive the 12 3/4" distance required. Of couse as you know - the exact distance from the saddle to the 12th fret is never exactly 12 3/4" anyway. That number is just a guide to start the setup with.

Of couse you are free to return, but again, based on what you are telling me below everything is good so shipping would not be refundable - to return just go to www.rondomusic.com - click on 'returns'

Kurt

----------------

Kurt,

I'd love nothing more than for this body to be just fine. But I'm having a number of critical issues other than the distance between nut to saddle. I've been exploring the issues in depth as I work through the project with some experienced builders on the Fender.com forum. Here is the link so that you can look in on the discussion:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=40670

I'll post your response in the thread and allow the experienced builders to hear your position and enter into the discussion.

I do think it's more complicated than just maintaining the distance from 12th fret to saddle. You also have to account for the components you are using, and the position of the other five saddles. But I'm all for trying to make it work.

Mark

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'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
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Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:07 am
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kozy814 wrote:
Well, I did receive a response back from Kurt at Rondo. His position is that this body is just fine based on the distance between the 12th fret and D-String saddle. Here is the email thread beginning with his first response to my first email:

--------------------

Thanks Mark - What is the distance between the D string saddle and the 12th fret of the guitar when you install the neck ?

What scale length neck did you purchase ?


kurt
---------

Hi Kurt,


I have a 21 fret standard scale Fender neck. The distance from the middle of the 12th fret and the leading edge of the D-string saddle is just about 12 and 5/8 inches (320.5 mm).

From my experience, in order to maintain intonation you must have a distance is 25.5 inches from the fretside inner edge of the nut to the d-string saddle's leading edge. The middle of the 12 fret is the exact mid point, meaning the distance of 12 and 5/8 inches is still just about 1/8 inch or 3 mm short.

I also checked to see if the neck cavity was perhaps an 1/8 inch or 3 mm longer, with the idea that maybe I could be successful in backing the neck out that distance to make up the difference. No luck -- the neck cavity is exactly 3 inches long, which would leave me short in bolting down my neck.

Also, I explored the notion that I could just slide the 6 point tremolo assembly back toward the butt-end of the body to make up the space. That caused the right side edge of the trem cavity just above the tremolo arm hole on the bridge to be exposed -- this also caused the trem block to be pushed against the butt-side edge of the spring claw cavity, restricting it's pivot point. On top of all this, with the neck snugged into the cavity, a fully loaded pickguard with with three potentiometers gets hitched up on the lower end of the electronic cavity to the degree that I cannot flush the pick guard to the surface of the body.

It's a real shame, because the wood grain on this body is just beautiful. But I think it warrants mention -- the tremolo cavity on this body is very poorly routed, to the degree that it's quite obviously the critical problem area. I've attached a photo.

If it's at all possible I'd gladly exchange this body for one with all the cavities in the proper positions. Please advise on whether this is an option.

Otherwise, as I said, this body will not work without major reworking and carpentry. And it certainly will not set-up as it is with the standard parts I have which are designed to drop in all strat style guitars.

I'm hoping to leave my options open to exchange this for a body I can use. Please advise

Thanks, Mark Kozera

[img][img]http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee34/Mercury7Music/trem_cav.jpg[/img]

--------------

Based on the data you send below - it sounds like the body is fine and the body neck combination is fine. - You indicated the distance from neck to the saddle is 12 5/8" - I assume, but did not ask that this measurment is when the saddle is in it's middle possition and there should be at least 10 mm of adjustability (total) in the saddle ? If so you should be able to acheive the 12 3/4" distance required. Of couse as you know - the exact distance from the saddle to the 12th fret is never exactly 12 3/4" anyway. That number is just a guide to start the setup with.

Of couse you are free to return, but again, based on what you are telling me below everything is good so shipping would not be refundable - to return just go to www.rondomusic.com - click on 'returns'

Kurt

----------------

Kurt,

I'd love nothing more than for this body to be just fine. But I'm having a number of critical issues other than the distance between nut to saddle. I've been exploring the issues in depth as I work through the project with some experienced builders on the Fender.com forum. Here is the link so that you can look in on the discussion:

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=40670

I'll post your response in the thread and allow the experienced builders to hear your position and enter into the discussion.

I do think it's more complicated than just maintaining the distance from 12th fret to saddle. You also have to account for the components you are using, and the position of the other five saddles. But I'm all for trying to make it work.

Mark


--------------------------------------

Well, There it is gents. I'm all for a bit of drama. Let the games continue...

_________________
'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
Epi Casino RI
Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:32 am
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Hi Kozy: there is no need for arcane discussion of where the saddle was set to, the distance to the twelfth fret, and all the rest of it.

That photo of the back cavity shows a product that is defective and not fit for the purpose for which it was sold. Plain and simple. Under consumer law in any western country that qualifies for a replacement or refund without further ado.

I have no knowledge of or issues with the seller in question. But if you don't get speedy redress then presuming you paid by credit card you can take the matter up with your card provider and under their terms of use get your money back from them with minimum difficulty. They will then automatically refund themselves from the seller's account whether he likes it or not.

That's how "credit card merchant services" works - it is brutal and the seller will almost certainly wish to avoid that bruising experience. I suspect that the merest mention that you might take the matter to your card provider will produce the results you need. If not, cut your suffering short and go straight to the card people.

You've done nothing wrong here, you've behaved reasonably and you deserve to be treated in like manner.

Best of luck to you - C


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:03 am
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Ceri wrote:
Hi Kozy: there is no need for arcane discussion of where the saddle was set to, the distance to the twelfth fret, and all the rest of it.

That photo of the back cavity shows a product that is defective and not fit for the purpose for which it was sold. Plain and simple. Under consumer law in any western country that qualifies for a replacement or refund without further ado.

I have no knowledge of or issues with the seller in question. But if you don't get speedy redress then presuming you paid by credit card you can take the matter up with your card provider and under their terms of use get your money back from them with minimum difficulty. They will then automatically refund themselves from the seller's account whether he likes it or not.

That's how "credit card merchant services" works - it is brutal and the seller will almost certainly wish to avoid that bruising experience. I suspect that the merest mention that you might take the matter to your card provider will produce the results you need. If not, cut your suffering short and go straight to the card people.

You've done nothing wrong here, you've behaved reasonably and you deserve to be treated in like manner.

Best of luck to you - C


Dropped him another line asking for a full refund. We'll see what happens...

_________________
'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
Epi Casino RI
Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject: Re: this strat kinda looks like mine
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:17 am
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Vintage Blonde wrote:
Nice taste, it kinda looks like mine!!
Image
now with black pickguard:
Image


BTW, this guitar has the now-discontinued Floyd Rose locking tremelo!

Dude, did you also have a set of locking tuners and an LSR nut installed?


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:16 am
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MORNING NEWS UPDATE:

Been talking with Kurt at Rondo. This guy's customer service skills suck!

His take: He can't believe there's anything wrong with this body since he's sold 100's of them. I like to know if anybody's every actually built a guitar with one of these.

Willing to refund but I lose on my original shipping costs and still have to pay to reship it back, which ends up being half the cost of the body, when all is said and done.

Well now, doesnt that just bite the bag :x

_________________
'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
Epi Casino RI
Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:48 am
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kozy814 wrote:
His take: He can't believe there's anything wrong with this body since he's sold 100's of them.

WOT? Has he looked at the photo? Did he look at the body before packing it up - and then sent it out anyway? Is this all about saving face for his five year old son who made the body...?

C'mon.

Off to the credit card provider without further delay, Kozy. The guy's had his chance.

And now everyone knows: don't shop at Rondo Music in Claremont NH:

http://www.rondomusic.com/partsbodies.html

Have you read this, by the way: http://www.rondomusic.com/returns.html . Not that there's any legality to that, but if you are within seven days then even by the shop's own self-appointed policy you get your shipping costs back.

Still. I'd just leave them to argue the toss with the credit card company.

Good luck - C


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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:06 am
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There's another thread going on with a gentlemen who attempt to refinish a guitar, only to chop up the body routes. He ended up cutting out the whole tremolo and pickup cavities and insert a multi-wood block in its place and started over. That might be your only hope. "Help us Obi-Wan (Ceri), you're our only hope..."

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:12 am
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DetroitBlues wrote:
There's another thread going on with a gentlemen who attempt to refinish a guitar, only to chop up the body routes. He ended up cutting out the whole tremolo and pickup cavities and insert a multi-wood block in its place and started over. That might be your only hope. "Help us Obi-Wan (Ceri), you're our only hope..."

I'm trying to figure out what you're refering to... :lol:

To be fair, we had to save that guitar because of the value imparted to it by its celebrity original owner... :wink:

Seriously, consumer law is pretty similar everywhere, isn't it? Does everyone agree Kozy has an open and shut case?

Cheers - C


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Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:28 am
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Off to American Express I go. Once I give my side of the story (w/photos and descriptions if they'll accept them), I feel good about my chances.

After all I did give Rondo the chance to exchange the offending slab under the reasoning that it's part of a bad batch.

I got my emails, my photos, the documented running progress of the project.

If by chance the credit card company does not see my point of view, then I'll be back to do a true mad scientist job on that trem cavity.

Or I'll be back with a better body to finish :D

_________________
'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
Epi Casino RI
Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:56 am
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Ceri wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
There's another thread going on with a gentlemen who attempt to refinish a guitar, only to chop up the body routes. He ended up cutting out the whole tremolo and pickup cavities and insert a multi-wood block in its place and started over. That might be your only hope. "Help us Obi-Wan (Ceri), you're our only hope..."

I'm trying to figure out what you're refering to... :lol:

To be fair, we had to save that guitar because of the value imparted to it by its celebrity original owner... :wink:

Seriously, consumer law is pretty similar everywhere, isn't it? Does everyone agree Kozy has an open and shut case?

Cheers - C


Consumer law may help, but doesn't mean its going to right itself over night.... It may take a really long, long time. Besides, it would be more fun to make it work right.

What celebrity owner? You're making us way too curious.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:06 am
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DetroitBlues wrote:
Ceri wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
There's another thread going on with a gentlemen who attempt to refinish a guitar, only to chop up the body routes. He ended up cutting out the whole tremolo and pickup cavities and insert a multi-wood block in its place and started over. That might be your only hope. "Help us Obi-Wan (Ceri), you're our only hope..."

I'm trying to figure out what you're refering to... :lol:

To be fair, we had to save that guitar because of the value imparted to it by its celebrity original owner... :wink:

Seriously, consumer law is pretty similar everywhere, isn't it? Does everyone agree Kozy has an open and shut case?

Cheers - C


Consumer law may help, but doesn't mean its going to right itself over night.... It may take a really long, long time. Besides, it would be more fun to make it work right.

What celebrity owner? You're making us way too curious.


There is principle of the matter here. It would be different of the guy had said: Oh, OK -- I'm sorry the body's a piece of Crap-ola. I can give you a new one, or your money back, or someplace in between.

But he just blew his nose right in my face by saying "youre wrong, the body's just fine, as far as I'm concerned"

Whatever happened to customer satifisfaction? Especially when the item is so obviously defective.

_________________
'78 Fender Stratocaster
Epi USA Texan '64 RI signed by Paul McCartney
'73 Fender Mustang
Gibson LP Deluxe RI '69
Fender Active Jazz Bass
Guild GADm20e Acoustic Guitar
Epi Casino RI
Gretsch Pro Jet w/Bigsby
And My Frankenstein-O-Caster


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:09 am
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kozy814 wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
Ceri wrote:
DetroitBlues wrote:
There's another thread going on with a gentlemen who attempt to refinish a guitar, only to chop up the body routes. He ended up cutting out the whole tremolo and pickup cavities and insert a multi-wood block in its place and started over. That might be your only hope. "Help us Obi-Wan (Ceri), you're our only hope..."

I'm trying to figure out what you're refering to... :lol:

To be fair, we had to save that guitar because of the value imparted to it by its celebrity original owner... :wink:

Seriously, consumer law is pretty similar everywhere, isn't it? Does everyone agree Kozy has an open and shut case?

Cheers - C


Consumer law may help, but doesn't mean its going to right itself over night.... It may take a really long, long time. Besides, it would be more fun to make it work right.

What celebrity owner? You're making us way too curious.


There is principle of the matter here. It would be different of the guy had said: Oh, OK -- I'm sorry the body's a piece of Crap-ola. I can give you a new one, or your money back, or someplace in between.

But he just blew his nose right in my face by saying "youre wrong, the body's just fine, as far as I'm concerned"

Whatever happened to customer satifisfaction? Especially when the item is so obviously defective.


People have no problem pointing out mistakes of others, but fight anyone who points out mistakes of their own. You can ask for a refund, but he can argue you modified it. If he's not the same country you're in, you may be out of luck entirely. But it really might be interesting to fix it all yourself despite of its crude cuts...

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