alright, i'm officially frustrated. i love my MIM strat but the g string simply will not cooperate. i paid for a set-up and it didn't work. i tried myself and it didn't work. i paid a very reputable tech and it didn't work. ( i can take it back to him for free by the way). my new strat he set up for me plays like a dream.
get to the point jeebs. i read a thread somewhere that i believe the wise one (mr nik) suggested adding a second tree on the MIM strats. can someone point me to a thread that explains the procedure of installation, the benefits and the proper placement of the second tree? folks, i can get the guitar in tune, but it's a pain in butt. very finicky with the g string. i know how to tune a guitar and this one is finicky.
sorry for long post. i love this strat. want it right again

Jeebus a 2nd string tree won't aid tuning stability at all, ever. Infact it's more than likely going to cause a few tuning problems. The only reason to add one is to increase the break angle from the nut to the tuner, the same as the E/B string tree does. If you're hearing a kind of slightly muted/square wave sound on the open G string then by all means we'll go through installing one.

Now down to your tuning issue. What exactly is the problem and how is the guitar set up. What experience do you have of re-stringing?

Your more than welcome to email me on this mate. I'll be happy to walk you through it, step by step off forum or on forum, whatever you wish. It's a bit late here though so don't expect a start before tomorrow when I can get some strings.

nikininja@ntlworld.com

K mate?

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as always, good info mr. Nik. i've re-strung my guitars for almost 20 years now. basic procedure of winding down with a couple wraps. i have zero trouble with my other guitars, all 4 of them. this one is extremely finicky. the tuning pegs seem to be fine. it's playable brother, but it takes a bit of patience to get it right.
the problem is when in tune using harmonics and then fret the basic d chord, the g is off very bad. i find when i move my index finger closer to the 2nd fret, she sounds alot closer. i always check final tuning by running thru basic chords and it takes alot of tweaking on this one to get her close. any advice you give me will be used and no doubt helpful. i love this guitar and will play it no matter what. i'm just a bit frustrated.
rest well mr. Nik. thanx

Are you using a wound or unwound g string? Whatever one you are using, try using the other and see if this issue continues.

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I didn't Lose my mind, I traded it for this guitar.

mr. Chet, i put 12's on with a wound g string and it solved the problem. but, i was bending my strings so hard they slipped from the nut. insert joke here. i really prefer 10's and i know there is a simple, inexpensive solution. i love the sound from the 12's but i bend like a mofo. my other guitars have zero problems. it's bugging the H out of me.
thanx for the advice mr. Chet.

I use 10's with a wound .20 for the G. That is the smallest wound string most companies put out.

Some sets of 10's will give you an unwound .18 and a wound .20 for the G string.

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I didn't Lose my mind, I traded it for this guitar.

Ok Sir this is a intonation issue, not a tuning issue. It's caused either by the G strings slot being too high or the nut being in the wrong place. I suspect the slot more than the nut because all the other strings are ok, right?

Tuning to harmonics is never that accurate anyway, so I advise you move away from that when your ready. Theres a great tuner program I absolutely adore. It's super accurate and it costs less than 2 sets of strings. If you computer or webcam has a mic' built in, consider this program.

http://www.tbstrobetuner.com/ The programmer Thomas Borit is a absolute gent too. I got it last year. One year later when I had to replace my pc, he just sent it to me again for free. All for $8.90. Of course a regular tuner will more than suffice, but I believe in sharing my good finds.


Anyways back to topic. Once your sure your 12th fret intonation is spot on. There are various ways of tuning the guitar. I avoid the 5th fret method, thats a bit of a sticky point on the fretboard. The 12th fret intonation has next to no effect on that area, neither does nut end/zero fret intonation. It's a bit of a no mans land. All reasons why harmonic tuning isn't the be all and end all of relevant pitch tuning.

Heres what I do hold down either a A chord with the little finger fretting the B&E strings at the 5th fret (yes I know after all that previous paragraph). Then strum the chord and listen for a consistent in tune sound out of it. Next hold a Emaj chord, but instead of fretting the G at the 1st fret. Fret it at the 4th fret. Fret the D string at the 4th fret and the B string at the 5th fret.
So you'll have a A chord that is

E-open
A-open
D 2nd fret
G 2nd fret
B 5th fret
E 5th fret

And a E chord that is

E open
A 2nd fret
D 2nd fret
G 4th fret
B 5th fret
E open
Tune so that both of those shapes sound in tune to themselves and you can switch between them without having to turn a tuning peg.


Then theres another way which is a bit harder and you need to listen to the beat of the notes (much the same as you would when tuning by harmonics, that thrum thrum sound that gets faster/slower as you get nearer/further to pitch).

Get your open low E intune.
Strike that open low E or it's 12th fret harmonic and tune the 14th fret of the D string to it (albeit one octave up).
Strike the harmonic on the 12th fret of the D string and tune the B string at the 3rd fret to it.
Strike the 14th fret of the D string and tune the open high E string to that.
Strike the 3rd fret of the high E string and tune the open G string to that.
Strike the 2nd fret of the G string and tune the A string to that.

Once you've got the guitar so that those two shapes are both sounding intune to themselves try a open G. Still intune, all good. Try standard open A, D then Emaj. If their ol your all good to go. Basically you've tuned your guitar to itself whilst missing 3rd intervals (theres been all kinds of different idea's about how a maj or minor 3rd should sound throughout the centuries. It's still not right).




If the G string is sounding sharp then the nut slot is too high. Now you can attempt it yourself. Personally I think it's one of the best things I ever learnt (when I was 16 and didnt know a thing, I just had at it and mucked it up. Learnt the hard way). However there is absolutely no shame in getting someone to do it for you.

Nut slots are funny things. Theres no do-over's with em. Once it's mucked up it's a whole new nut. You can make a temporary repair with superglue, but thats all it is, temporary.

Anyways look forward to hearing how you go on with that lot above.

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mr. Nik, oddly enough, i kinda do this already. i have a good tuner but i always run thru a similiar thing of strumming differnt' chords in various positions on the neck. i believe you've hit it because i have zero problems with my other axes, even the old gibson with a whammy that i set up myself. i tried this strat on my own and failed to get the G "in". this is why i took it to the tech along with the new strat. my thinkin' was, i'll let the pro get it right, and from there i can do small adjustments on my own. i do have another week to take it back for free adjustments but i've got a family reunion next weekend and i must take this guitar. gotta have it.
mr.chet, if i still can't solve this i'm gonna go back to a wound G because it worked for me before. i think mr.Nik is right about the slot.
thanx, to both of you very much. i've got all weekend to figure out what to do.
by the way, the my space tunes were great. good pickin'.

mr .chet, i got a .18 wound G and it solved the problem. i picked up an extra for the gig bag.
i really appreciate both of you taking the time to offer advice. it's why i like this forum so much.
now i just hope my shoddy soldering on the pickup will hold.
have a good weekend.

Nikininja wrote

So you'll have a A chord that is


E-open
A-open
D 2nd fret
G 2nd fret
B 5th fret
E 5th fret

And a E chord that is

E open
A 2nd fret
D 2nd fret
G 4th fret
B 5th fret
E open
Tune so that both of those shapes sound in tune to themselves and you can switch between them without having to turn a tuning peg.

You sir are a fountain of knowledge thanks for that info.

Tracks on myspace are super you are a great guitarist............dreams

Al You're in Sunny Scunny aint you mate? We hope to be up your way sometime towards the latter part of the year. Still pass on any biker club details and we'll play anytime were not booked.

Thanks for the compliment, some people here have an idea exactly how much that means to me.

We'll be doing tour tshirts too for next year, so make sure you get a freebie out of me.

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Hi Niki yeah i am in Scunny be great to see you play up here, i,ll have a think about clubs round these parts but i do know of a great place in Grimsby which ive been to called the "Yardbirds club" on Church Street.

Its a friendly place owned by beardy sons of satan types (only kidding) bout the bit.

Saw Ainsley Lister there and that type of bluesy rock stuff made for a great night.

Re the compliment, just telling it like it is m8ty.

Who's the local bikers club up there thats our target audience and to be honest our best way in. The singer (from Skeg) or bassist (sidecar racer) will likely know them.
I dunno why I spent years pandering to venue promoters when all you really need to do is ring a bike club. They treat you great and pay too. Theres never any argument about money.

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If anything change the string tee to an American style string tee. Still holds down the string, but it moves more freely rather then a vintage style. I personally believe its either your nut or your method for stringing up the guitar. It also needs to be properly stretched prior to stringing up, if you don't it keeps stretching and you'll go out of tune. Its the most common string to be bent and used with vibrato. Plus it has the most tension out of the unwound strings....

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