Most of what you wrote isn't true. The Mexican and Squier pickups that you spoke of are the ceramics, there are plenty of high end MIM and Squiers that have Alnico pickups. In fact the only MIM guitars to have the pickups you described are the standards, everything else has alnico.

Hi stratele52,

It would seem by your insistent statement of your "cheap pickups" that there must be and translation problem from your native French expressions to those in English, as US Fender Pickups don't come cheap to anyone.

I can promise you that there is a notable difference between a pickup with professional specifications and a "cheap" version of the same thing and those US Strat pickups are of professional spec. What gets done with them is left entirely down to the end user. There are lots of professional spec pickups on sale today and to be brutally honest, I find that people fantasise about different types and makes. It is fair comment to say that there are many differences in the tonal balance and output of todays professional spec pickups, which have been marketed to fuel these fantasies of gullible guitarists, with the promise of improving their guitar by changing its tone. But the truth is, if you have a good responsive pickup like these "cheap" US Fender Strat types that you used to have, and you wanted a different sound, you can alter the tone on your amp, or even use a different amp or different speakers. If you don't think that they have enough output, alter the pre-amp gain of your amplifier. Everyone has preferences as to what guitar and amplification they choose, but ultimately its down to the player to make them work for them. How many times have you watched a good guitar player demonstrate a brand of cheap guitars and make them sound a million dollars?

The moral to this story is... It is a poor workman who blames his tools.

Martin.

In all fairness though the US standard pickups do have plastic bobbins, unlike "higher end " pickups sets that come with fiber bobbins and cloth wiring, so I could see how someone could view them as more economical or "cheapened". Personally I do think the American standard pickups lack character, but that could all be personal bias.

I am not a Fender enthusiast that would argue the toss on behalf of Fender no matter what. In fact, I don't even use one on stage (not that haven't or will do in the future). But as I said before, I do work on many types of guitars and I have a personal selection of about 10 or so different types. Now without meaning to upset anyone, I would like you to consider the following. Fender have had few rocky times through the 70's when under CBS ownership when a few corners were cut to maximise profits, but there were still a lot of good instruments came out even then. Now these pickups that we're talking about, that are here being considered either cheap or lacking character have been installed in thousands of Fender Strats over the past number of years. These have been gigged and recorded by many top end players not to mention the amount general gigging musicans and have displayed much character in their performance. I would maintain and be happy to prove to anyone (which I have done in my workshop) that these pickups have all the qualities that Fender have been renowned for since their beginnings. Without meaning to offend, I would personally say that any short comings that anyone persieves in these pickups is soley down to the players inexperience/inabilities.

Martin.

"the moral to this story is... It is a poor workman who blames his tools. "
umpdv5000

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So all musician who prefer one guitar or one amp to another have a problem ?

Not at all. Personal preference will always prevail but I am merely pointing out that tried and tested equipment should not be dubbed as substandard. Its like saying, I prefer Fenders so Gibsons are crap.

No I don't agree. Just because something is made well and the sound appeases a great amount of people does not make that universally true, and certainly doesn't mean the player's skill is question. Yes a good player can make anything sound good, but why settle when you can tailor your sound to exactly what you want? I know for a lot of people the American Standard represents a benchmark for excellence, but for me the first one I ever owned ( also my first MIA strat) was just bland sounding. I traded it for a '06 MIM CP60s and it played and sounded so much better. I do agree that the MIA standard pickups are not substandard, but they definitely aren't everyone's cup of tea, just like Im not a big fan of CS 57/62s or TX specials.

Just to add my two cents, I'd trade my Texas Specials for American Standard Pickups anytime....

_________________
"Epitaph on a blues musician’s tombstone: “I didn’t wake up this morning”" Davy Knowles


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Hello again roadie,

I'm not intentionally trying to cross swords with you on this one, as I said, personal choice will always prevail. But let's examine things a little closer in a scientific manner...

A magnetic pickup is a piece of magnetised metal with a number of copper coils wrapped around it (which I'm sure we all know) and what makes a pickup more sensitive is the strength of the magnet and the fineness of the copper wire that is wrapped around it. One of the major differences you will find between cheap and more expensive pickups, is the width (or fineness) of the copper used in the windings. When it comes to the production of this coated winding wire, there is a jump in the price when it goes bellow a certain thickness. This is due to it being more difficult to produce and cheap pickups get wound with a grade of wire that is before the price jump of the thinner stuff. The more winds around the magnet, the stronger the output. The stronger the output, the more the tone is altered due to the greater impedance, which tends to cut the top of the signal. Different winding patterns can create slight variations of tone, along with different magnet materials.

All in all, if you have a pickup wound with fine grade wire and a good set of magnets, you will have a professional usable pickup. Standard Fender Strat pickups are not overly wound and thus produce a moderate output. I am very much aware that they are susceptible to losing a bit of grunt if they are placed a little too far from the strings, but what they do give is a full tone spectrum from bass to high treble. Now all the modifications in the world of pickups are only about tone and output strength and if you have a full range pickup, it possible (and less expensive) to alter your tone and attack issues from your amplifier. For years I used to use an old tweed Vox AC30 which only had one knob for tone marked "TONE", and I used to use a ten band graphic equaliser plugged in line with my guitar into the amp. Using one of these things, it didn't matter what pickups you had in, you could tailor your guitar to sound like a strat (of any variation) or a Les Paul.

Personal choice will always remain even when common sense fails, but the facts will always remain the same.

Martin.

57/62 are not CS

Yeah you are right about that, I meant to just put CS TX specials.

umpdv5000, we'll just have to disagree. Science or no, I know for me that I can definitely hear the intrinsic properties of each individual pickups regardless off tweaks in EQ or change of amplifier. My CS 65 still sounds like a CS 65 whether I put it through my Peavey Classic, Bugera 1960, or vibro champ. Even with different EQ sets I can still tell they are the CS 65s, and if I were to plug in my strat with Big dippers, I could do the same. I'm not saying that American standard pickups are inferior, I just stated that for some they may not wet the appetite which is absolutely true. Can they get the job done? Yes. Do they sound nice? To some, yes and others not so much. Can things be done amp wise or effects wise to alter the sound, Yes. I never disagreed with you on these things.

Thank you Yogi & Stratele52 for a most vigorous debate. Who scored the most brownie points will have to be decided by the many onlookers (cast your votes below please).

To be honest, I don't disagree with you about some pickups being more desirable than others, I was merely taking exception to a seeming derogatory comment of a world renowned pickup as being cheap and characterless. However, everyone has their opinions and we are obviously at different ends. Now lets go down the pub together for a pint.

On the subject of prefered pickups... I had a custom made guitar made for me about 22 years ago by a local guitar maker. It was an all maple, natural finish Strat with a through neck and the headstock shaped like an arrow head. Although I do like Standard Strat Pickups, I wanted to find a type of humbucking pickups to go into it, as I was getting a lot of static interference on some stages with standard single coils. The ones that this guitar maker demonstrated to me were a set of rail pickups by Bill Lawrence and I thought "great, I'll have those." But as time grew nearer to the completion of my guitar, I was informed that Bill Lawrence had gone missing and the guitar maker couldn't get the pickups. He convinced me on the phone to have active EMG pickups in and although I had never tried them, I agreed at the time as there were a lot of good reviews on them in the music press. When I got the guitar, I just didn't like the sound of it. I didn't know if it were the pickups or the fact that the guitar was all maple (which made it very dense and heavy). The EMG pickups had no magnets showing, just black plastic tops with EMG at one side. The tone from them was very clinical and they lacked the really bright top end of a good Fender pickup. You have to bear in mind that I was using that old Vox AC30 with just a single Tone control at the time, so there was no chance of altering the equalisation. Anyway, I became so disgruntled with the sound that I took out the EMG's and put in a set of those Standard Strat Pickups and WOW! the transformation was unbelievable. The guitar suddenly took on a whole new character. Unfortunately, I had taken the Strat Pickups from another guitar which I had to return them to, so back in went the EMG's. It was after this that I put a 10 band graphic equaliser in line and this cured my tonal problems. I didn't have much luck with this guitar as it developed a structural problem through movement in the wood and was subsequently returned to its maker and a refund given. So the truth is that although these particular EMG pickups were being raved about in the music press, I will never put a set anywhere near any of my guitars even if I did have a 10 band graphic equaliser to use with them. So I do understand about preference.

Catch you again I hope.

Martin.