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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:41 am
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I have to say that I have been there before with the pickups lowered and it just doesn't float my boat. I do like to hear a bit of attack from a pickup and I can't say that I have ever noticed any loss of sustain for closing pickup distance into what I see as the optimum distance. I have a working theory on "The Straty Sound"...

In my knowledge the most popular Straty Sound that most people strive for is that of clarity with a hint of crunch. Now I mention the word crunch simply because there is an element of distortion/compression in the sound of most of the Classic Strat tones of the past (with the exception of Hendrix). I have learned through experience that if you play a Strat (or any other guitar) through an amplifier that is clean as a whistle at stage volume, when you come to turn up your volume knob for a solo, the sound can be painful on the ears due to the unyealding attack of the notes. Our playmates of the past used Vox and the like which gave a softening of the attack due to the valves breaking up as the notes were struck and thus it was clean and more pleasant on the ears. I find that the close pickup to the string setting that I use give better attack for this softening effect through my 70's Marshall and when the pickups are further away from the string they just become what I call "Dinky". This is just my observation and opinion of course and I do set all guitars up for customers in this fashion. The only feedback that I get is how much better they like the sound when I have done the adjustments to their pickup positioning. But ultimately it does come down to whatever floats your boat.

Martin.

PS, I checked out that link posted by Rock Icon and the pickup distancing is much identical to the way I do things, but I must have a play about with that Quacky adjustment it sounds fascinating. Thanks for finding that Rock Icon.


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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:31 am
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Please please, I'm more rock lobster than rock icon

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Just been looking at the SCN pickups I have. They are from different years and all have a different stagger. The ones on my deluxe are flat and flush to the housing, alolng the treble side. The D is raised normaly then they gradually decrease towards the low E. Their from 2004 the first year they were introduced. The Customshop and Hotrod's SCN's both have a different stagger. They are from later years, 06 and 07/8.

Looks like it's right. Fender did stop following what Bill Lawrence said about making those pickups.

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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:27 pm
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Thinking a lot about this staggered issue in past years and get same conclusion as many people here: it doesn’t make sense now with plain G string. I have two US strats – the older one is from 1978 when I bought it, ash body and maple neck, the newer one is 1992, alder body, rosewood neck. The older one is fitted with Texas Specials about 6-7 years ago. I like theirs tone a lot, but also have many problems with loud G string. Also because of magnet pull I must adjust pups height to minimize pull on G string, resulting on low E1 string level and even worse B string level.

Recently I’ve get second hand pup set from Highway one strat very cheap, try it on my newer strat and they sound excellent. After a while I take them out, and against all advices and warnings, push down G magnet pole, and rise up B and D on all three pickups. They worked properly after this surgery – also checked resistance before and after, and it was unchanged, all pups around 6K.
Put them back and get string balance correct as I wanted. But something else changed. I’m not expert, just enthusiast so it’s hard to explain why, but now the strat didn’t sound right. Its sound somehow become less bell crystal and not as exciting as it was before.
Three reasons come to my mind:
1. Pole pieces are different length, so if you simply pull them out or push it in it makes changes on the magnetic field spread at the bottom of the bobbin, and that must affect other pole pieces inductance in the pickup. Result is changing relation between coil and magnetic field = different sound. Not sure if this makes any sense?
2. But this make sense a lot: when you bend B string up, it’s moving from the lowest pole piece to highest, making it much louder and bring some excitement in playing. On the other hand if you bend G string down exactly opposite thing happens - making note mellower. Think that most bending is just happened to B and G strings? Using this fact you can add new dimension to your playing. So from this perspective vintage staggered pups can be upside to your playing style.
3. I'm just imagine all this :roll:

Any similar experiences and thoughts?


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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:35 pm
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I like my Texas Specials. I did not like my stock American Standard pickups that much. It all comes down to individual taste I suppose. :)


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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:29 pm
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I like my Texas Specials too. No string is noticeably louder than the other on my guitar. I have the pickups set at an angle. 8/64" on the treble side and the on the base side the pickup itself is almost flush with the pickgaurd however from the top of the pole piece to the bottom of E string it is 8/64" also.

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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 3:51 am
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I like the flat pole pieces, even across the tops.

Some of my guitars have the old school staggered pole pieces and they seem to work okay, but one would think that they would skew the outputs of the strings unevenly due to their uneven interaction with the magnetic field, when using modern strings.

I'm not an engineer or even an expert mechanic, so I can't explain why the flat pole pieces, non-staggered, work best with modern strings. I'm sure someone here is educated and experienced with this professionally and can explain in plain language that we can all easily understand, why the non-staggered polepieces should sound better when used on modern guitars with modern strings.

I would like to read a well written, easy to understand but not dumbed-down explanation of why this is the case.

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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:19 pm
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My '65 Strat still has the original staggered poles and it sounds deadly.To my ears the stagger-poled L series Strats were by far the best sounding of all Strat pups.I don't think that it's a step backward at all,I see it as reverting to a pickup that had much better fidelity than most that have been made since.

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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:50 pm
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One thing that I have noticed on the vintage stagger, unless you just strum, is you bend the strings over the higher pole pieces and get a bit of a volume swell. That's part of the magic of the Leo designed strat. Of course, Hendrix blows that theory, with his upside down strat and all. :?

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Post subject: Re: Is current trend of Staggered Pole Pickups a backward st
Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:39 am
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Hi Martin,

I have to agree with you - I'm not a fan of the dominant 3rd/4th strings either and can't see the point with modern strings and flatter radius boards.

On an old thread I was roundly slagged off (and no doubt will be again) for saying that you can carefully 'adjust' pole-piece height by pushing them in or out (and I agree I wouldn't try it on vintage p/ups), but I've done it on numerous p/ups from the last 20 years without problems. No, not with a hammer...

Although in fact I have some staggered Di Marzio Virtual Vintage that I haven't 'adjusted' - oddly, they don't seem to be 3rd/4th dominant.

And of course such pups as Lace Sensors don't have any stagger at all, so it CAN'T be necessary!

Cheers - Peter.


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