This is just silly now. Movin' on...

Cheers - C

Maybe we should all get together and give them a good old fashion beating like we used to in the old days.

Please don't kick me off the forum for this remark but maybe we could call the DA and file charges against these posers.....................

for those interested in this issue, you may want to have a look at ebay seller named fineguitar09

better still research some of the serial numbers he publishes in his photos, are perhaps even email to see what they can supply you......it's an 'anything you want scenario' , and not at all worried about saying so.

when it comes to pushing boundaries........ !

We kick the fence down then use it in a big bonfire?

We extend our borders to the Iraq/Iran boundary line???

Sorry mate just having a laugh. I'll get on it shortly.

_________________
No no and no

Hey Trilight,

Interesting thread I must say, after spending the last 20mins reading- I thought I should add something. Before I do- its good to see that a resolution has been made.

Now- as for those who live in our part of the world, we pay a premium for USA guitars. For the purchase price, there was a fiesta red '97 california strat that sold down here for $1700 would you believe!! Crazy huh- thats why buying from the USA or Japan is soo lucritave.

regarding consumer law, and given the situation- and I will for the purpose of this post will give a hyptohetical scenario as to what would happen here in NZ in that situation.

The Only reason why is that I know our Laws are very similar. I run a retail store and it is my job to know our Consumer Guarantees Act, The Fair Trading Act, Sale of Goods Act and the Credit Contracts Act inside and out. These are the guidelines I take with all queries about the product I sell should something go wrong.
Please be aware that whatever country you are from, your consumer law is there to protect not only the buyer- but also the retailer by establishing a common ground between the two parties.

For starters, secondhand goods are excluded from Consumer Law. The only requirement, is that the product(s) have to be in a safe working order that will not injure or harm anyone under the designed use.

Secondhand goods that have been purchased overseas for that matter will not be covered at all by Australian legislation at all.

The other thing, (funny it was on our consumer programme "Target" tonight too on TV3) is that a lot of countries (NZ included) have a sound consumer legislation- But do they have any E-trading commerce legislation in Australia? NZ doesnt have any, I would be surprised if Australia did too. Lack of e-trading legislation is an increasing concern, with the sudden spike of fraudulent trades and tax evasion. The IRD in NZ are taking a hardline very soon.

That is why you will see retailers sell stock on trading sites, yet will not disclose who they are (err... reliablefender anyone???). The reasoning is that this is a 'loop-hole' where they are GST exempt and there is no right to re-dress action at all. Even with brand new products. They do have trading or sales feedback/ratings though. If the retailer did in-fact disclose that they were a retailer and were upfront about it- selling their goods online via a trading site and backing the product with a full warranty then that would be a different story.

This is where reputable trading sites come in, that manage their own customers transactions. You are lucky mate, very lucky in fact that you are safe with Ebay.

To put it simply- buying second-hand goods from a private individual entirely is at the buyers risk. Buying from overseas- from a sole individual, is like playing russian roulette with your money. You would be just as safe sending it to an Nigerian bank after reading a fax that said you were a beneficiary to a will...

As far as lawyers are concerned, I think the fees a lawyer would charge in a several hours work would out-weigh the value of a said instrument- its the factories in the east that manufacture large volumes and profit largely from, are what Fender's legal team would rather chase.

You did get ripped off, but you actually did well considering.

... I think what you should do when this is over and dusted, sit in your favourite chair with a cold beer- and worry about who is going to win next years world cup mate I actually would like to see Australia beat the All Blacks at Eden Park for once in 20 odd-years... I dont think thats going to happen though

_________________

Good to hear ebay honors their "Buyer Protection" plan. My buddy had his fingers crossed waiting for his "holy grail" '59 Gibson Les Paul re-issue to be delivered, bought on ebay from an individual who was a relatively new seller...luckily all turned out well.
Whenever buying something sight unseen from "who-knows-who" you run the risk of getting ripped-off. I've been very fortunate with my ebay buying experiences which recently included a $1200. American '09 Deluxe.
I minimize my risk factor by first checking the seller's feedback and rating.
Seller's very new are sometimes rip-off artist that were forced to "open-shop" under a new ebay account name. Then if they "look" ok I'll shoot off a question or two to see how soon they reply and how they answer my inquiry. But in the end it's the age old latin phrase "Caveat emptor" ....
let the buyer beware!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

_________________
An object at rest tends to stay at rest...
and an object in motion tends to stay in motion

Ponderwilu you struck up a point that I mentioned earlier about your friends 59 reissue. I said 2 of the best deals I ever scored on ebay were from first time sellers. Now of course you run the risk of something going wrong but you also get the chance of getting a great buy as most snipers stay away for those very reasons so there is a lot less traffic on a good item from a first time seller.

Niki you have it backwards over here these days. It is Guilty until proven innocent!

trilight I agree with you all the way on that. If I see someone selling something that is not listed right I tell them right then and there. And those, I have found 3 who were selling fakes, I write and tell them there guitar is being talked about on like 3 guitar forums and they get nervous and start asking which ones and I just go some big ones that is why I am here looking and of course they go into how they were the victim.

After seeing how much more you guys have to spend for an American guitar which I really hate, I am just wondering now if Ibanez guitars are a lot cheaper in Japan.

It's just me who has it backwards, but its ok cos I stick to my guns.

_________________
No no and no

in one particular Asian country, buying from an authorised fender dealer, I have seen the cost of a pair of matching USA Strat & Teles (100%the real goods ), for less than the cost of the single strat or tele back in aus.


and as for the Ibanez instruments...they had more than one 'guitar tower' made from their Ibanez models....most of which you'd never see in Aus....gems of all type

Thank you very much for this ...interesting to see how far our consumer protection 'might' go. I'd think Aus have very similar laws in place.

Again I agree that usually legal pursuit is only sought when anticipated remuneration is higher than the cost of retreiving such.

I have used our local consumer tenancy & trader tribunal once before in aus, a NSW govt entitiy which handles small consumer claims usually of less than $10000. It was over, ( again an ebay seller) , a guy who selles "new" laptops here in aus-although he says new they are actually factory refurbished units he sources from USA....with incorrect regional BIOS #'s and machine serial #'s etc etc. Basically, they look and are boxed just like new but when one tries to claim on manufcaturers warranty it is then say HP tell you it is a USA release unit, and warranty finished 1 year before you bought it new !

In short, tribunal is very 'personal' and takes matters as they see them. In our case , and mostly because seller didnt bother to show up for hearing ( decided to fax some excuses at actual hearing time- scorned upon by the board rep ) , the seller lost the laptop, and lost the approx $1300 that was paid for it. The local courts took the moneys from his bank acc and paid us out in full. Cost of hearing procedures was $33 ( plus of course time and effort ).
That case pushed some limits, ie , relocated regional product, internet sales, ( he also had a small text waiver stating 90 warranty not 1-2 year as per manufacture ) . One word failed him, and that was selling "NEW", and so had him accountable to new item sales laws here in aus.

Back to guitars - just recently there has been a significant increase in Eric Clapton USA necks selling on ebay...or EC strats that dont look entirely the goods. I'm now of the view IF you have to copy a guitar make it a Martin DLX Koa special @ $40K , not an $800 5 year old usa strat. I really think it is the appeal of the strat, and the challenge of the garage-copy that sets some off - then some choose to try and turn them out.
I have a very decent collectible EC strat , and it brings me no confidence in thinking "what if i wanted to sell it now", when I see so many "interesting" EC parts in my local market.

In a way greedy international Fender dealers have presented -reliabl-fender- with his niche, which at times can assist the consumer inevitably. Ethics are questioned more when things like Fender CS necks, serial backplates and COA's are split up - are often sold in a manner to suit those building "not quite right" models, and thus selling at max $ value upon exploitation of the copy instrument builders.

I still have more concern though about guys knocking out these copied/fake logo'd fender necks here and there than i do with say an asian factory exporting 1000 of the non badged necks.

It has happened in the past & I'd think it will happen again...when a strong handed legal sweep is done as to reduce rights theft and deter others from dabbling.

World cup ? I spend alot of time abroad and tend to sit with the brew with other expats...and they have me convinced Aus sportmen are some of the most arrogant around, so i have no problem when AUS lose

I've been watching some Ebay I.d.s sell questionable American Vintage Reissues for a few years now, they seem to all be in the Chicago area for the most part....
Things that are obvious to me...for instance a guy a week or so ago selling an '88 '62 reissue with a V11 serial number....no way in hell a V11 was '88.
it was a '98, but the guy, when given the info, was a complete ahole about it.....

He sold it saying he was going to learn to play but never got around to it, then I went to check his feedback and he had purchased an Adrian Chandler Knock-off Strat a month before, the 1982 dated neck, I'm sure is going to end up on a piece together sold as the real thing. I downloaded the pic, so if it ever comes up and I see it, well there you go...

I met a guy in South Carolina years ago that was faking vintage strats and the amount of detail he was putting in them was scary...

do your homework times ten...

_________________
'64 Fender Tremolux
'76 Fender Super Six
'86 '57 Reissue Brownburst Strat
'86 '62 Reissue Sunburst Strat
'87 USA '62 Reissue Fiesta Red Strat
'88 USA '57 Reissue SeaFoamGreen Strat
'87 American Standard Stratocaster Inca Silver

I think this thread proves one thing...It proves how we all must be on our toes when buying guitars ..Which is a shame..
I have an ex friend who i recently found out to cover his over spending on some guitars that he really liked and thought he was getting great deals on without having knowledge of the market ..So to make up for his lack of knowledge he changed the headstock decals so he could sell the guitars to pawn shops and recoup his miss spending.
When i confronted him about it..His self righteous reply floored me...He could not see the wrong of his action because he believes all guitars sqiuers and Fenders are equal and only the headstock decal makes one worth more..Plus the fact he was only selling to pawn shops who rip off people anyway..
This guy is not a career criminal or Drug user he is your every day Joe with a decent house wife and kids ..It still floors me that he was willing to do this and can see no wrong with what he has done...
I thank the people of this forum ..And consider it a service that people share there knowledge of Strats to keep others from getting burnt...I myself almost got ripped on a MIJ Strat ..But because of people like Ceri,Straycat,NikiNinja pointed out things i did not see..Or was blinded by the good deal i was getting and not to using common sense...
If it wasn't for this forum and its members i would have been a fraud victim and could have possibly sold that guitar as what i thought it to be...So it can happen that people pass on fake guitars without knowledge although i don't think that is the case on this thread..

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fender-white-str ... 1c12719ab3

Hey, report them to ebay's Trust and Safety department. They are the ones that will remove the listing if it is fake.