I don't have time to read this whole post.

But if the guitars counterfeit then you cannot and must not return it to the seller. You should get a police report filed and contact ebay/paypal for a full refund.

If a crime has taken place then the guitar is evidence. Sending it back for them to scam someone else is the worst thing you could do.

Try to keep the guitar if you can in case they need additional photos etc. Then once you have the funds returned hand the guitar over to the Police or Federal Police.

Fender should care about it a lot, that's why they pay big bucks for Copyright Protection and Patents. The absolute worst thing Fender can do for it's customers and employees is to ignore this stuff and turn a blind eye.

Cheers,

Snowy

If it a company selling copies I agree but if its someone selling a partsocaster or dont know what they are selling what can they do. I hate getting riped off to but sometimes you take the bad with the good. I feel bad for the OP but you have to research thing when you buy from ebay and sometimes you still get ripped off. Its happened to me and Ive learned from it. But this is just my opinion. Something should be done but I dont think fender should care on a small scale such as this.

strange post i listed my 06 on the bay yesterday and a person from australia asked about the case candy hang tags etc... maybe phishing for something i dunno as i will ship only to the usa. got me wondering. hmmmmm!!! interesting post. thanks.

thanks for the replies, some good info ..pro & con.

I owned a cali series fiest red HSS model few years back when I was operation a commercial studi..and always regretted selling it.

After years of trying to replace it ( referring to ebay for availability now & then ), I not so long ago took the plunge and purchased a ne USA Fender custom shop classic in, fiesta red...appeasing that itch i had.

THEN, my god daughters brother, who does his final year of high school this year, requiring him to do his guitar pieces live, kept talking about how he wanted an American Special Series with HSS ( new greasebucket & atomic humbucker deal ) .

Given I am on and off ebay quite alot, looking for studio processors, and then using ebay to swap and change some of my own collection ( ie , if I've had a sunburs model of something, and finally get that sonic blue i desried, then up on ebay goes the burst ), I kept an eye on what was around with that Fender new model American Special Series.
Then this cali series with the new circuit popped up ... temted me beyond logic...and KaPoW

THIS DEALING ALONE HAS ALREADY TURNED ME OFF FENDER PRODUCT - which I know is not FMIC doing...but looking at the stuff right now kind of sickens me in the gut.

Please understand I am a seasoned pro, owning studio, performing o/s at national stadiums...french quarter fest in n'orleans, on ferries between ireland & wales etc etc... and n the past 5 years have been involved in the manufacture of approximately 2000 high end timber instruments...guitars,reproduction of vintage lutes, acoustic bass, and so on.

I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

Long and the Short ;

-stung for the $719
-i had option to send back to seller and lose approx $120 on return postage
- IT IS ILLEGAL TO SEND A COUNTERFEIT ITEM INTO USA ( try landing in euroe with a copy rolex, or a copy prada handbag - you want to cover it up well unless you'd like to be fined and processed on the spot )
-i DONT want to return and item like this to someone who will probably attempt to then sell it off to another less suspecting.
-the best evidence i have is the actual counterfeit item held
- i've lost approx $200 cash and near two billable days of work so far regarding this...SO IT"S COST ME MORE THAN THE INITIAL $719 OVER AGAIN THUS FAR....and I'm not finished yet-whilst i am still peeved over this incident i'll run with it as far as i can as to 'maybe' slow him or others down....and i know it will be always going on.


i did read someone viewed these photos and thought they pretty original....even with brush strokes in fresh lacquer pools? and dodgey logo? It makes me think there must be SO MANY fakes out there that people just do not know about.

Anyway, thank you for all your assistance, and opinions. At least this info is available for public, and awaiting reply from fender if they'd like all info as it presents.

oh, sorry, as matters stand since paypal used for payment -

awaiting paypal to advise whether they refund in full with requirement goods destroyed, or if they still want it sent back to USA before a refund.

Thus i am seeing if ANY other parties are interested BEFORE the possible scenario that the fake item is indeed destoryed.

Funny...I discussed with ebay the counterfeit matter & customs documents required to send o/s ...they replied " send it back marked as a toy guitar if you like.." Apparently that staffer has since been reprimanded.

Please stop whinging till you hear back from paypal. Make sure you keep on them for a quick resolution. Send them all your evidence.

Reread my post as you don't have to send it anywhere as its counterfeit.

As for taking days off work etc etc. Who cares. Yeah you got ripped off.
But then you can get ripped off buying something at the corner store.

If you didn't know that there are dodgy sellers on ebay well you just found out.
He has a nice smear against his feedback now. Bad luck to him if he brought and sold a fake.

If my posts here are seen as 'whinging' ...i can live with that. At least it possibly raises the awareness of others.

cheers, yes, all communications have fortunately been via ebay email/messaging service

very valid point, & cases like this may be seen to ultimtely assist FMIC.

one thing i find though with say ebay & paypal, often people confine to thinking within regulatory boundaries of such entities.

NEW & USED vendors have been around alot longer than online sellers and civilized countries have had long standing laws they must abide by.

Whether a Fender Strat or a LV handbag there are indeed international laws relating to copying such ( eg 'madrid protocol" which i undertsand both USA & AUS are members )

Obviously there laws pertinent to falsifying customs declarations.

*** SO IT IS UNDERSTOOD

Upon receiving this item it was instantly obvious it wasnt what it was said to be.
I spent approx 3 days of to and fro ebay messages to try and resolve/send back in a man-man fashion...NOT accusing him of anything,merely saying along the lines of "hey look, this isnt a real fender, i want to send it back but dont think given circumstances it is my part to lose $100 to return it to you..."

During that time I was told of how he was harrassing another person,& saw his messages twist & squirm every which way including loose.

At worst I would lose say $100, or he would lose $100....ALOT cheaper than the path I have taken now.

Over my time I have had the following counterfiet items arive via online purchases,some being -
-a few instruments-some just never showed up
-expensive Tod handbag
-nokia gold sirocco handphone
-Fishman preamp product ( be warned there's MANY copies of those out there online)
-now this
ALL other issue have always been able to get sorted...ie , when a hustler is caught they prefer to either run, running fast & far, or they simply man-up and keep hustling...as it is in their best $ interest to do so.

WHAT MOTIVATES ME HERE IS,
-not entirely the fact i have been ripped off
-not the fact he sent a counterfeit item internationally
-not the reasoning ( which i dont know) he has his wife handle the online payments and sign the falsified customs dec
-not the fact he has personally B/S'd me
-not the fact he has harrassed others also


It's the fact he just won't man-up to his actions and accept he is accountable for such

I know many are saying why didnt you just send it back...think about it....copy product...but he had again said it original...but denied those ebay messages straight out.History of buying the parts to put it together, and a Paypal policy that states he must receive it just as he sent it.

WHO'S TO SAY, WHEN HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF TO ME TO BE DODGEY, HE DOESNT RECEIVE IT BACK AND THEN CLAIM I CHANGED ORIGINAL PARTS FOR COPY ??

BASICALLY , HIS INTEGRITY WAS SHOT TO PIECES A LONG TIME BEFORE MY PAYPAL SEND-BACK OPTION.

As for he maybe not building this copy, I am still interested as to what he does with such items as 270533193577 fender necklate he bought from eby user myfenderparts feb 21 2010...i have the feeling i know own it ).

I agree , near 100%...the instrument & documents related to sale and freighting are the actual best evidence.

the whinging...well as far as paypal goes....they are thinking it over until 1st June apparently, having rec'd 3rd party inspection report yesterday validating it to not be what stated and made of many non genuine substantial parts including fake logos applied with intent to deceive....so, it's now 6th may.....that's a whole lot of whinging until 1st June !

yes...police reports, internet fraud reports, US customs reports, AUS customs reports, and then forums such as this...at the very bottom of this food chain are the actual $'s, ebay , and paypal.

Hi trilight, welcome to the Forum.

What a fascinating thread: I've carefully read every word of it and examined the original Ebay sale page.

Many things confuse me about this. I'm amazed that it ever seemed worthwhile paying $120 shipping charges on a $600 guitar - plus whatever import duties eventually find their way to your door. (Those charges sometimes arrive weeks after the goods - you may not have finished paying for this guitar yet.)

But whatever: the worth of the original purchase is obviously your choice to make.

I'm bewildered that you think this has anything whatsoever to do with Fender. They have a tough enough time going after whole factories producing fake guitars by the thousand. In a million years they are not going to waste time and money chasing some kid selling dodgy items second-hand on Ebay.

And that goes for all the enthusiastic talk of police involvement too. The police of all countries are snowed under with internet frauds that net millions at a pop. A dubious used gear sale on Ebay won't even make it to the bottom of anyone's in tray.

As has been mentioned, Ebay/Paypal have a well established process for resolving these sorts of problems. In the past I've sometimes heard of money being refunded without the need to return goods. Whether that works in your case we don't know, but plainly there was not the slightest need to spend further hundreds having the guitar verified as a stitch-up - that was just throwing good money after bad.

We'll all be very interested to hear the wording of any reply you manage to get from Fender. I wonder how tactful they will feel like being? And we'd love to know the end of the story as regards your complaint to Ebay, if you feel like coming back and telling us when it's done?

I wish you the best of luck - C

Thanks C, I am in agreeance. In the grand scheme of the all things this is pretty petty.
For your reference- generally Fender product sells approx 50-100% higher here in aus than USA, whether used, or FMIC MAP in-store new...thats a very general % , nevertheless true. Hence why many Aus customers head toward resources like ebay. i do when it comes to collectibles, and I also buy on the fly so to speak when travelling.
In this instance there are no related import taxes, whether valued at USD$99 or $599, or indeed USD$799...all falling below our import threshold.
I import both airfreight and sea cargo to aus, exporting both but mainly air out relative to my instrument manufacturing business.
So that USD$719 / AUD$795 for delivered to door instrument aint so bad for us downunder -CONSIDER- IF I was temporarily blind, physically &/or morally, that instrument would fetch at my nearest wholesale auction room , from USD$875 on a very bad day to USD$1100. Sydney auction rooms it is general for a USA made strat to be $1K AUD start price given not too beaten.
HOWEVER, if you go collecting, or chasing down a specific model in Aus, VERY DIFFICULT, as we simply have less instruments in the turn around.

My work indeed takes me into some of the busier factories who are knocking out all sorts of fender repro necks (not of interest to me though)...most of which are imported by bulk into USA where they are locally badged and lacquer finished...It has been my experience over the past 2 years to see MANY more decals/waterslides & unlicensed replacement parts selling. I can see little reason to buy a fake decal unless you have a fake neck to put it on right ? ( there are times though i realise ).

What is kind of interesting is the fact so much effort goes into duplicating an expensive guitar, when in actual fact the skills the builders acquired in doing so stands he well to indeed produce his own line items.
This is the foundation of Asian manufacturing growth... A foreigner comes with a product for they to make, so they make it, they are happy because they get a bowl of rice, the foreigner is happy as he pays a bowl of rice. A bowl of rice isnt enought though, so they are still hungry, but the foreigner is quickly becoming fat on his new found profits..SO,THEY LEARN HOW TO MAKE THIS ITEM,REALLY MAKE IT, & AT THE SAME TIME THE FOREIGNER FORGETS.
Keep in mind there is no benefit/incline for a guy in asia say to try and knock out one fender copy...useless...the one off's are usually from more local hobbiests/garages etc. I know some who would not be bothered to make runs of 200 raw fender necks a time for export, if it not for the western buyer requesting such order....to they it is a boring production run....pure and simple, and to the actual builders the neck has very very little value - only the value that particular customer places on it.

AND the guys who manufacture 100's of these fender necks at a time DO NOT sell them as genuine fender goods...it is those who get them back to countries where fender product is higher valued, who whack a decal on it, WHO DO..or sell it is "picked this up at an estate sale"...as to try and wash their hands of prior knowledge.

As i write I can see how it an interesting retirement scheme - head out to the workshop at home and buff up a neck every fortnight...just a few $'s for petrol !

re spending money for 3rd party inspection. Paypal required this of me.
Again, it is actually illegal to airmail counterfeit product o/s , and for me to do so/return it is illegal. I doubt I'd have any problem , nevertheless I would be left open legally....I wouldn't make it a habit posting a counterfeit handbag into central Europe....only due to the rights owner caring enough to police.

If I dont get that report...which cost the $171, then Paypal were saying its mine to keep.

Why would Fender care ? probably dont... though it is always of benefit of rights holders to maintain the integrity of its product, in Fenders case they have the new sales, and then the valued vintage goods. I'd assume that Fender themselves own a very valuable older instrument ledger and as with the many people worldwide who hold substantially valued collections/investments etc the watering down of the brand name integrity is of noones benefit. It can actually get to the point if a market is flooded with too many copies or cheaper LABELLED versions, basically the customer basis loses interest.

anyways....will let you know what transpires.

Well as someone who has purchased more than my share of guitars on ebay I would first like to say I know how the original poster feels in not getting what he thought he was.

There have been some good points made and some not so good. The way most are talking it is as if the seller is selling dead out Asian made counterfeit guitars which is not the case at all. Also the seller deals in selling musical related items and has close to 1,500 transactions with a 99% feedback approval rating. There is no way he would of made it to 100 transactions intentionally selling fraudulent guitars without someone busting him. As many naive buyers that there are there are also as many super sharp buyers.

I cant understand why you would pay so much to have a guitar autopsy performed instead of just contacting Paypal and filing a dispute that the item did not come as described. If you and the seller who I doubt would want to see his perfect feedback rating ruined could not come to a happy medium then you should of escalated it to a claim where the decision would have definitely gone in your favor and Paypal would of reimbursed you. Now the bummer is that you are on another Continent and that the shipping is so high but if you might of approached this differently and worked out an exchange with the original seller something with the shipping may have been worked out as someone with 1,500 transactions does not want to lose that perfect rating.

lomitus brought up many good points in his post especially about it being possible the guy did not know everything about this guitar. And though lomitus would not buy a guitar from ebay I have bought many with 90% of them being guitars that sre discontinued and no longer manufactured and in 8 years of ebay I have only sent back 2 guitars with one being someone trying to be a wise guy and saying the guitar was mint when it was lucky to be a 7 and in which Paypal had my money back in my account in a week,and the other a similar situation in which I can see an honest mistake made as the guitar was exceptionally clean but had fret wear that in time would of needed a dressing and the seller left it up to me and I returned it but still speak to him to this day. Otherwise everyone of the others were smooth and I have some gems because of it, but I bust my a## doing research and my homework.

Ceri also brought up a great point, does anyone actually believe the police would waste a minute on something like this or even FENDER. Now if this was a ring of Asian counterfeits that would be a different story but this turned out to be a mixed parts guitar so you can forget that route.

I know guys who have gotten burnt buying second hand in GC so it can happen anywhere. I truly feel bad that you got burnt and I hope it all works out for you someway. Sometimes people over analyze and the two rarest and best guitars I bought off ebay were first time sellers which scared half the guys away and kept the price way down.-Go figure.

Hi,well, the guitar autopsy was necessary as requested by paypal themselves.

As it turns out today instrument was destroyed at Paypals request and stat dec stating such has been faxed to them.

I suspect a full refund may soon follow...I hope so as there's not much left now but the report !

I would prefer to lose $171 and have the instrument destroyed, rather than abide by sellers requests & send back to him and then be at his mercy awaiting refund - losing $120 approx to send back.
This way the instrument is no longer in circulation, and perhaps, if paypal dont pay out two parties, he may think it not viable to repeat.

IF I didnt have that insp report then there'd now be no evidence at all.

Seller has also blocked australians from buying from him - no problem as tht suits me just fine - the other recent aussie buyer who was stung seems lovely, and seems genuinely upset by the sellers manner..plus they're unimpressed they got faulty goods....if you look back in the sellers feedback they were lucky not to get another neg when they didnt disclose a cracked headstock or similar...their attitude..'just send it back'

1400+ feedback / basically focussing his ebay business on guitars / yet he cannot see a crack in a headstock ???

I WONDER, JUST HOW MANY OF THOSE $1-2k + USA GIBSON MODELS HE HAS DEALT OUT HAVE HAD SOME PARTS UNDER THE HOOD SUBSTITUTED...but, I cannot know, or say...

*BUT I DO KNOW WHAT HE SENT ME WAS VERIFIED COUNTERFEIT & HAS BEEN DESTROYED ACCORDINGLY .

*AND I DO KNOW THE ACTUAL SELLER HAS HISTORY OF WORKING ON THIS INSTRUMENT.

the sellers recent transactions ( but i think now he has made that private ), show he bought the greasebucket loaded guardUSD$199 ( no issue & it was perfect match to what i received ) , he bought a more modern type usa neckplateUSD$4.99+postage, and he bought fender gig bagsUSD$8+-just as what i received...still no big deal really...BUT it does show he worked on the instrument, and would have 'probably' been privvy to seeing the huge March 2004 stamp in the neck pocket, and very wrong timber routing under guard --- when fiddling with the loaded guard for sure & probaly the neckplate respectively.
Of issue is that the appeal with the 97/98 cali series stratocasters is that they used genuine usa nickel reissue parts of that era...and yet the instrument is still reasonably priced second hand-dubbed as the poor mans 62RI --SO , it is an interesting model for those wanting to part out for profit.

lomitus does raise many valid points that I agree with, though some of the facts he states related to the manufacture & parts of the model at question are incorrect. The cali series was made in usa-body neck and hardware, and sent to Mex for the painting as i understand. The hardware is nickel viNtage style hardware, not chromed modern type or mex style as the insp report showed....if need check the font and distancing on the bridge saddles.

I HAVE SOLD MANY GUITARS ON EBAY - IF I CRACK OPEN WHAT IS SAID TO BE GENUINE I CONFIRM EVERY PART AS IT JUST ISNT WORTH THE HASSLES IF IT ISNT ORIGINAL

If the neck is falsely logo'd, if the body is wrong ( BLATANT WRONG ROUTES ), if the hardware is a substitute, then the only things that were real were the loaded guard,newer backplate and the gig bag ...AND IF THAT WAS DISCLOSED PEOPLE COULD HAPPILY PURCHASE ACCORDINGLY.

Ceri is also right..i dont expect the PD to turn on their flashing lights, nor FMIC legal team to quickly press their suit jackets... I am 'whinging' ,as I have been advised, in an attempt to maybe prevent others from being in same situation..

The info I have given here isnt going to bring me any great benefits, and in fact stands to be detrimental to my own situation.

I WILL SAY I AM VERY THANKFUL TO LOMITUS, CERI, AND ALL OTHERS WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO VIEW THIS THREAD, AND ALSO TAKE TIME TO GIVE ADVICE & POST PERSONAL OPINIONS ETC.

VERY HELPFUL...AND VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

I in no way suggest he bought the neck from Asia, I am merely stating in my line of work i am seeing these perfect spec'd copies shipping out of factories heading to USA,and in volume.(NB i am not foolish enough to disclose on this forum these exact factory locations/countires i speak of, even perhaps if some may think they have possibly deduced this...there is no trail ..).Sorry, but I have done business with these entities & continue to do so, so it is in my best interest to have no supply chain history published
A reasonable fender 'style' guitar from major manufacturers varies from USD$5-40, minimum order $5000, BUT they have slight spec's altered as those factories dont want the litigation

Coatesville PD, thus far , have been very helpful, and ebay aus have forwarded their legal dept information as to speak directly with Coatesville PD.

No interest to date from FMIC