I am trying to learn how to get better at mixing my sound and have taken advice from people on the forums that I frequent to improve my skills.

I am using a Yamaha MG82cx mixer and a (single) QSC K12 speaker (I plan on getting another K12 down the road when I can afford it). I using a Fender American Standard Stratocaster run through a Digitech RP150 pedal and into the mixer. I'm singing through an EV N/D 967 mic. I'm using chorus and delay on the RP150 and using plate reverb on the mixer for the vocal.

I set the channel gains for the guitar and vocal to just before clipping and the channel volumes to the unity marks and backed the guitar volume control off slightly. I then used the main volume for overall loudness.

I set the EQ on the mixer flat for both the vocal and guitar channels, and set the K12 settings to DEEP and VOCAL BOOST.

I made a little test recording placing a large diaphragm condensor mic 2 ft in front of the K12.

Here is the test clip...

Click Here To Listen

This is a cover that I just started learning so please forgive the bad performance.

Any additional pointers would be helpful, and thank you.

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American Standard Stratocaster

Well, these are just my initial thoughts as I'm listening to it. These are as always just my own personal opinions...they are intended to be honest and fair. Further, please know that when I'm reviewing other people's work, I do so in the way I expect others to listen to mine...in other words, I'm not here to stroke anyone's ego...I'm not being deliberately rude, I'm just providing you with my honest opinion.

Ok...first thoughts are tune the guitar...whenever you're recording something like that, your tuning and intonation (where ever possible) needs to be perfect...it's not like playing live where "close is good enough". Since we're talking a Strat, I would seriously suggest having the intonation looked at as well before you record any more.

Second thing, the guitar there in the intro sounds rather flat...pretty muddy too. There are several things you could check/change in regards to this...first, make sure you have new (or at least newer) strings on the guitar you plan to record. Old strings almost always sound like crap on recordings (no sparkle or life). I would also look closely at the eq on your mixer as well. I know most folks suggest recording "as flat as possible" and then doing your eq afterwards but I'm a big believer in that if you get it right the first time then you don't have to go back and fix it later. You might want to play with that eq a bit (especially the upper-mids...maybe around 4000 - 6000hz?) and maybe bring the frequencies around 800hz down a bit...it sounds like you're trying to emulate an acoustic there basically so I'd play with the eq and really try to get it to sound like an acoustic (if you're not already using it, try the acoustic emulator on that Digitech pedal of yours). Also check your input levels and see if there's a line in setting like "mic/line" or "cut" and if so, make sure it's set correctly for a guitar.

For that matter, now that the vocals have kicked in, yea...they sound really flat too. So I guess I should be asking here, are you trying to get them this flat deliberately...are you planning to send them out to a mastering house or something? -If- that is the case...your planning to send these out to a mastering house...then the eq is fine...ya want good and flat for that. On the other hand, if this tune is more intended as a "hey...what do you guys think of this tune?" then I'd say it needs -way- more eq work.

I must say that I do like this tune. You say it's a cover? Who did the original? The way you've done it here almost reminds me of "In to the West" by Annie Lenox from the Lord of the Rings: Return of the King" soundtrack...very similar kind of feel/mood. I like it.

Ok...you said you were using "plate reverb on the mixer". Is this a stand alone unit that you're recording on or are you by chance going in to a computer? If you're going in to a computer, what recording program are you using? The reason I ask is that if you're using software, I would try a couple of other reverbs. Ok...this -is- a bit subjective and I will admit that I -am- a bit biased but to my ears, plate reverb on small, digital units never really sounds like "plate" (real plates are very large and very expensive)...usually they sound very thin and rather tinny...and I really don't like "slap back" either. A tune such as this one...on it's own at least, should have a nice, full, lush reverb...something with the sound of a -really- big room (like a Cathedral). If all you have is just the reverb on your mixer, then you may have to play with things...for all I know that's the best sounding reverb you have but if it were me and I were to do a nice version of this tune, I'd really want a really nice full sounding verb to really fill things out.

Also on the note of filling things out, that tune...at least as it is right now...really needs a real acoustic. If it were me, I'd record two guitar tracks...one as you have it now and a second one on acoustic (but played better)...mix those together with the electric as the support sound and I think you'd get a fantastic sound. To me I think this might even be an ideal place to try something like an Ovation 12 string...recorded thru both it's preamp and a a good mic (nice stereo mix).


Ok...I know this is obvious but you do need to get yourself that second monitor. That could be a part of the eq problem as well in that it sounds like it's being played back on a little AM/FM radio. Granted these are computer speakers up here (I haven't listened down in the studio yet) but they're Altec Lansing's...usually these sound pretty good (again, for computer speakers). I'm sure you were checking your channels and all on your one monitor but I think it's come off sounding a tad bit "mono" (if you get what I mean). At the very least, a decent set of mixing headphones would be in order. I know a lot of folks advise against using headphones for mixing (and for good reason) but I'd rather mix on a -good- set of headphones (like my AT's) rather than try to work on only 1 good studio monitor.

Ok...second listen through...

The performance mistakes are obvious and I'm sure you're aware of them so I won't go too much in to that. I will say that if you should choose to try and do something serious with this song, if it were me I think I would try and do about 4 or 5 takes for each part and then comp the best parts of the best takes together. Again because this is only guitar and vocals, every last little vocal mistake can be heard...and it's unlikely that you're going to get one absolutely perfect take (although I could certainly be wrong).

Ok...this next comment is also highly subjective but thinking about this from a producer point of view, I think for that tune I would really like to hear some good finger picking there instead of the strumming....two different guitars with 2 different sounds that compliment each other.

By the way, those first three chords really sound like the intro to "Free Bird".

The eq is still really buggin' me there. Seriously, unless you are specifically planning on sending the tunes out to a mastering house, I wouldn't worry so much about "flat" as much as simply "natural". Should you go back and re-record this, I would keep that in mind...try and get a natural sound when you're setting up your eq. Sorry...I know this is a basement studio thing but honestly, flat is over-rated...it's not very please for people to just sit and listen to because that's not the way most humans really hear things.

Also, while I don't know if this is intended to be played with a full band or not, if you're just planning on making this voice and guitar, you need "more"...more definition, more clarity, more natural sounding, etc.. Again I'm not trying to be rude here at all but what you have now sounds little more than a guy singing while playing his guitar and it sounds like it was recorded on a boom box in front of him. I do realize these are not intended as "serious" recordings and that you are certainly still learning. In a situation such as this where you have just voice and guitar, more often than not just "strumming" while singing doesn't provide for a terribly impressive listening experience. I like the feel, I like the tonality but at the risk of sounding blunt, it does make me want to hear this tune properly recorded and professionally played.

Also a couple of quick general comments/suggestions. First and foremost, don't over-work your ears. When you're first learning how to record there can be a bit of a compulsion to keep working at it until you get it perfect and it takes some of us a while to realize we'll never get it perfect. Either way what happens is you end up listening to the same tracks of the same tunes time after time after time after time...and you're ears -do- get tired. I'm sure there's a few folks around here who have done the all night mixing sessions then woke up the next afternoon, listened to them and said "my god those sound like crap!". LOL!!! Seriously always try to do your mixing and your eq'ing with fresh ears whenever possible.

On a similar note, if you start getting really frustrated, it's time to take a break. If you're just learning this stuff (which I suspect you are) then you're probably aware of just how over-whelming it can get. There -is- a learning curve. Be patient with yourself and know that recording is like playing guitar...it's a skill and it's one that often takes some time to learn.

Again, fresh strings and fresh setup on which ever guitars you plan to use. It -does- make a difference. For that matter if you ever plan to add live drums, fresh drum heads that have been properly tuned makes a huge difference.

Use proper posture when you're singing...don't just sit in a chair with a guitar in your lap and slouch!



Alrighty, I think that's about it for now. Having some idea of what equipment you are using for recording would certainly be helpful. I know you said you're using that little Yamaha mixer...where does it go after that? PC/Mac? Stand alone unit? 4 track cassette? If it's a computer, what software are you using? With some more specific information we may be able to make a few more suggestions for ya. This isn't really a recording forum but there are plenty of knowledgeable people around here.

Again please know that I was not trying to be rude or mean...again I was just providing my honest opinions and a few suggestions and nothing more. I hope it helps.

Jim

Mic an acoustic guitar for a full and dynamic sound.

It depends on your circumstances but record in a decent sized non-square room something bigger than 8x10m.
Make sure you record off center in the room but not up to a wall or with your back against it. Close the curtains. Drape some curtains in corners where sound can reflect or over chairs.

Here is my cheats guide to micing an acoustic. Use your imagination.
Clip was fine by the way. Just too sanitized. Your voice or playing has little to do with the audio aspects.

Over all I like it.

I would also second everything that was said.

Just so you dont think Im a duffus. I worked as both a touring musician & recording engineer.

My thoughts in no particular order.
If you are goin for the coffee bar sound you nailed it. I would liven up the guitar a bit, so the sound isnt so "flat". I would just EQ the vocals.
I heard higher register "noise" some times. There can be many reasons for that. Breath wind? Is that on the original? If it not on the original, it can be caused by the different sampling rats of the digital devices. Sound is good enough for live.

As I said, I like it. I would listen your recording & be critical... but not to critical. It is your sound & no one can tell you if its good or not.


Craig

Couple of other things. Use a vocal mic diffuser. It allows you to sing louder and more naturally. Your voice needs more verb or mid.

Thank you all very much for your replies.

I should have been more specific in my OP.

This is for 'LIVE SOUND ONLY". That is why I put a mic 2 ft in front of the speaker. It's the closest I can get to what the audience would hear, and I am only trying to improve my BASIC mixing skills.

I perform at open mic's only and don't do this professionally. most of the time there is a PA at the open mic, so I just bring my Strat and pedal, but there are times when I like to bring my rig to test it out in a live setting. I want to improve my basic mixing skills because there have been times at open mic's where there was no one who knew how to get the sound good, and I want to know enough to be able to get my sound good (and maybe help others out with their sound) in these situations.

I know studio recording is a whole other ball game, and I do have a little recording rig which consists of a Apogee Duet, MacBook Pro, and Logic Studio. If I where recording for studio, I would do it completely different, but I'm just trying to learn the basics of mixing for live so I get a decent sound in the event that there is no one that can do it at an open mic.

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American Standard Stratocaster

Ok...I think I get what you're saying. Often times you play at smaller houses and you end up doing your own mixing and you want to make sure you're doing it correctly?

If that's the case, there are a few things you'll need to remember and adjust for. First off, -EVERY- venue is different...in other words, as a live performer I may play in Joe's Bar one night, the local VFW two nights later and a place comparable to Starbuck's Coffee on the weekend...all three of those establishments are going to have different acoustics and as such, you will have to adjust your eq accordingly for each individual situation to get it to sound correct. Say that VFW hall is particularly "lively"...all it has is painted cinder block walls...in such a case you may need to back your highs and reverb down compared with playing in a quieter, well padded coffee house which is going to be different still from playing in an average bar or club. There is not going to be any one single setting (or set of settings) that's going to work in every place you play. So that said, I would reiterate what I said earlier in that you should try to approach the mixing...and specifically the eq work so that it sounds "natural" (and again, flat isn't natural)...and you'll have to do that each and every time you set up...which is part of what a sound check is for .

Secondly, when you're doing that sound check, get yourself out in front of your mains and see how you really sound to your audience. Even if you have an excellent monitor system, things still sound -very- different on stage than they do in your audience. Remember, it's all about what your audience thinks of your sound. You're not up there to sit around and get your rocks of about how good you think you sound on stage...be objective and make sure you listen to what your audience is hearing. That said, if I were in a venue and I heard an acoustic act that sounded the way your recording did...at the risk of being blunt I'd either walk over and show the person doing the mixing how to use eq properly or I'd simply leave. Again it's a good sounding tune but it's just really flat and lifeless...not the kind of thing I'd want to hear live while I was having a cup of joe or a beer.

An addendum to what I said earlier...on the reverb, that too is really going to depend on the venue as much as anything. Again, using the VFW hall as an example, you're not going to want to use a plate verb there because it would probably sound way to brite...in fact in a hall like that, you may not need any reverb at all. That nicely appointed coffee house though, a small room like that may need some "ambiance" so that your mix doesn't end up sounding terribly sterile. For that matter, having some compression on the vocals might sound pretty nice there too...even out some of those dynamics just a bit.

Now honestly, the levels of the guitar and the voice do seem about right...pretty good balance there (of course, again at the risk of being blunt, we're only talking about 2 volume knobs...ain't that hard to get a good mix). However I really can't over-state this enough, doing a good "mix" isn't just about volume levels, it's as much about good eq as it is anything else. I would address the eq issues first...get the guitar sounding as natural as possible, then get the voice sounding as natural as possible and then listen to the mix and see how the two are working together.

BTW...I'm curious...are you planning on using these as "backing tracks" by any chance? If that should be the case, you may wish to approach your mixing from the stand point of a "live band" as apposed to that of a solo performer with your band of course being your backing tracks. It's a bit of a different approach.

Even live I do have to say that I still think this tune would benefit from being played on a good, properly mic'd acoustic. That too is just an opinion but it's a very strong one. The right tool for the right job and that sort of thing.

Anyways, doing a live mix...be it for a solo act or a live band is about "the mix" and making that mix sound as good as it possibly can given any specific set of circumstances. Again in this case your levels sound good but the eq needs work. As your recording sounds now, it might sound good in a really lively room...something like a gymnasium or that VFW hall with the cinder block walls or even a nice large barn. If you were playing in a smaller, more intimate space however you're going to want to warm that sound up quite a bit and give it some "mood".

Okies...just an extra $.02 worth.

Peace,
Jim