RWs are Crap. A beat up mexican strat for nearly a grand? don't think so. But if you've ever played a masterbuilt relic... you will never want anything else. Not only does it have the cool factor but the neck is where the magic is. The worn neck is smooth and feels so right. It doesnt have all the paint and glaze laquered on that to me feels sticky.

Ok...yes this topic has certainly been addressed on a number of occasions. I've said it before and I'll say it again...relics...I just don't get it. Let's say you're looking at two brand new automobiles. Both cars are, more or less, identical in features however one of them is nice and shiny and has that "new car smell" and the other has a cracked windshield, a busted tail light, -1- school bus yellow rim and the interior wreaks like a French hoarhouse...and this second one is nearly TWICE the price. Are you really going to buy the car that looks like the remains of a car-jacking-gone-wrong...after all a brand new car shouldn't have key marks down both doors and a missing ignition switch, right? Aren't you going to get the shiny one where everything works? What about your computer...are you really going to pay extra for a keyboard that already has a couple of "cigarette burns"? Are you really going to buy a brand new flat panel TV -just- because the color's all wonked up intentionally? Even antiques...if you're buying an antique for your home or something, don't you try to find something that's in -really- nice condition? Think about it...if you're getting say a peace of furniture from an antique dealer, say a desk or even an old piano. Yea, it's nice to say "this is an 1827 Blowfchester made by Mr Blowfchester himself...." but does it really matter if that piece of whatever it is looks like salvage? All other things being equal, would you really pay -more- for the one that looks "fresh from the barn"? Then -why- are guitars so freakin damn different?

I know this is just me but personally when I get something like a guitar and I'm proud of it, I want it too look as good as it can. Ok...yea...a couple of my older guitars do bear some scares of my less discriminant youth (LOL), but over-all I try to keep my guitars as new looking...and as clean looking, as possible. If I'm starting to get some rust and tarnish on the bridge saddles, I'll take some steel wool and clean that up next time I change strings. If the guitar is dirty, I clean and polish it. No...I don't really store them in their cases but they are usually down in the basement studio more than anywhere else and they are reasonably well protected down there. To me, finding a scratch on my guitar is like finding one on a brand new car...it's not some stupid "badge of honor", it's a scar on something that is otherwise quite beautiful...and it's depressing. Yes, I do expect a few scratches and some degree of wear if I'm buying a used guitar...but even there, I do try to find something that looks as good as it plays. If I saw a used guitar that was in fact a little beat but the price was right, I'd probably get it...then take it home and clean it up if need be. But to buy a brand new guitar, let alone pay extra for it just because it's already beat up? I'm not trying to be rude here but how can that possibly make any sense???

Re-issues and NOS I can understand. I mean it would be kind of cool to walk in to a show room at a car dealership and buy a "brand new" 1957 Chevy Bel-Air (made to all original specs!)...fresh from the factory (insert long siggggghhhh here). Yes, there's a certain appeal there that I can acknowledge pretty easily. However...again it's not like you'd pay extra for a new one that was already beat up...right? In fact if I go to something like a car show, I'm not usually walking around looking for the cars still done in primer and rust....I'm looking for the well polished beauties that look as though they've been immaculately cared for or that have been very lovingly restored by a person who really knew and cared about what they were doing. If I really want to look at neglected rust, I have no further to look then my own driveway! LOL!!! In my days as a hot rodder, we had a saying, "It just ain't cool if the chrome don't shine"...and that's my opinion with guitars too.

I will say that I think it was a magnificent marketing ploy on Fender's part to come out with the Roadworns. I don't care for the myself (obviously) but the folks at Fender recognized the appeal of certain iconic guitars...for example, Clapton's "Blackie" and SRV's "#1". Both #1 and Blackie are -beat- as far as their looks go. And I'm more than sure that both of those guitars have earned their battles scars many times over. That said, the folks at Fender must have recognized the appeal of such instruments and that's what started the early Custom Shop relic series. Once Fender discovered they had a bit of a market for such instruments...not to mention all of the relic'd guitars popping up on Ebay and such, I think the RoadWorns were just a natural evolution. The thing that really gets me there is simply the price...you pay almost twice as much for a RW that is essentially little more than a Standard MIM. Now don't get me wrong...I do LOVE my MIM's but we're right back to the question of why should I pay more for something that just looks beat up...just because it looks beat up? Fender is capitalizing on a really big "cliche" if you will...personally for me as a guitar player, it just doesn't seem logical to me. If I were playing a truly superior instrument and it was a bit beat up perhaps because it was well used, then yes...I'd be willing to pay more for the better instrument over the inexpensive shiny model...playability -does- count...I get that. But that's not the case with the RW's is it? They don't really play or sound all that much better than an MIM Standard...and if anything there's a good many people out there who think they play considerably worse. No...really...about those warped pickguards! LOL!

Ok...yea...yea...I understand about the whole "image" thing...I think it's a load of crap but I do understand it. I do understand that everyone has different tastes too and I guess I can almost understand something like a RW or a Relic might appeal to some people...but personally I just don't get it...and I hope I never do.

Just my $.02 worth,
Jim

Suppose though you are looking at artistic masterpieces, which is what relics are. The paintjob is just that a paintjob, there to help convey the sentiments of the builder.

Personaly I think Fender in a sense belittled the artistic significance of Relic's by introducing the roadworns.
Take a look at the Blackie, SRV, or Malmsteen tribute guitars and tell me their not works of art, just the same as the hula, windsong or koi guitars.

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No no and no

very good point...especially seeing as the road worns are all the exact same in looks for the most part. But something the SRV you just can't easily fake that, that takes authenticity...

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Blues with a feeling.

GUILD GUITARS: MADE TO BE PLAYED!

There is a huge difference between a RELIC and a RELIC'ed guitar.

IMHO:

A guitar that is a RELIC (aka true vintage) is one that is old and shows its age and wear (whether it is lightly used or heavily abused)

A RELIC'ed guitar is a new guitar that is made to look old artificially to varying degrees.

To me the Road Worn series were just made to help get rid of damaged inventory at a premium price. No more B stocks or seconds.

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-- Joe --
77 Bradley Les Paul Custom
06 Ovation Elite-T 1868T-5
12 Martin Custom GPCPA4 RW
07 PRS CE22 MT
11 PRS MC58 Artist
04 Ltd EC-1000FM ASB
95/02 Fender Stratocaster MiM
03 Epiphone '56 Gold Top LP P90
04 Fender Telecaster MiM

Man it broke my heart the first time I put a tiny ding on my Hwy 1 Tele, but now that it has started to wear a little more I am digging the look and vibe of it.

One of my buddies recently got a Hwy 1 Tele in sunburst and then tried to do a "self-relic" job and it went terribly awry. The guitar just sits in his music room now and he won't even touch it. I mean it looks terrible what he did to it and he even went as far as to take a razor blade and carve up every fret to simulate the cracking of a vintage fret board. I feel bad for the guy.

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Blues with a feeling.

GUILD GUITARS: MADE TO BE PLAYED!

I've played many Relic'd strats over the years and I have to say, the appeal for me is in the neck. Like someone else posted, I like the feel of the bare wood in my hands; it has a faster, smoother feel (for me). Heavily lacquered necks just feel too sticky for my taste.

As far as the body wear goes, I've never been one to demand my guitars be pristine. They're tools and as such, they're going to take some scrapes over the years.

Fender has a make an model for everyone in the playing community. The Relic series is just one of the niches.

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The mind is like a parachute; it doesn't work unless its open-FZ

REMOVE MY QUOTE FROM YOUR SIGNATURE PAGE NOW!!!

OZZY RULES!!!

Whats Funny is John Mayer's main strat is actually a relic built by him and John Cruz in the FCS

Hey Nick,
Ok...hopefully you know by now that I do respect your opinion but I'm going to have to debate this one just a bit. I think your comment about "artistic master pieces" may be a good analogy...I don't get contemporary art either! LOL! Come one...seriously...some guy draws a tiny little 1 cm x 1 cm black square on a 24" x 36" canvas and not only calls it "art" but tries to sell it for $3000??? Ok...for the sake of fairness I guess I could see where if someone were say trying to "replicate" the Mona Lisa, they might do so as a "relic" to show the age of the original and such with detail right down to the cracked paint. With guitars in the case of those tribute series instruments you mentioned, yes, duplicating the detail of such a very specific instrument could indeed be seen as a "work of art"...I get that. A skillfully done replica can have it's appeal. But I would also mentioned that there's a -very- big difference between duplicating such a specific instrument and just doing a "relic" just for the sake of trying to make something look old and beat up (which is essentially what the RW's are).

I do think there is also a perspective issue that really needs to be addressed there too. Ok...I'm a guitar player...to me the important thing about a guitar is how well it plays and how well it sounds. Those are my primary considerations when it comes to choosing a guitar...mostly. So as such when you find a really gold guitar that sounds great and plays really well, it can tend to look a bit beat up because chances are it's been played -a lot-. There is a certain mystic appeal to owning a guitar that's seen -many- nights on stage. But to me, those scars come from that sound...it's a great sounding, great playing instrument so it get's played a lot. It does -NOT- however sound good just because it looks beat up.

That said, at the risk of sounding a bit shallow here, there -is- a certain aesthetic appeal for a great many people. Ok...this is my "think of it like a woman" analogy. I love my wife...she is really intelligent, she's kind, she likes many of the same things I do and she is in fact a very talented musician herself. On the other hand, I didn't know -any- of these things about her the very first time I looked at her. There was something about her outward visual appearance that was attractive to me otherwise I never would have really said hello to her...see my point? I think the same thing is very true with guitars...I won't speak for everyone but in my case there's usually something about the way a guitar looks that first catches my attention. Then I walk up to it...and in my case the first thing I usually do is look at the price tag! LOL!!! -If- it's reasonably affordable (or at least within the realm of possibility) then I'll sit down and play it. If it feels good and sounds good -and- it's within my price range, then yes...I might take it home. BUT there was that something about that LOOK that first caught my attention.

So I guess speaking for myself, yes...I'm getting to be a dirty old man in that I do still like looking at young pretty women who I find attractive. Yes, I do still think my wife is quite beautiful and I do still love her very much but I'm not dead either. So when I'm looking for a guitar, call me shallow but I'm not really looking for "a vintage woman, dressed as a librarian with a great deal of experience and really looks the part", the first thing that catches my attention is the "hot, juicy model in the really tiny bikini"...if she happens to have a brain, so much the better! That's not to say that I don't have an appreciation for "older women"...but let's be honest...some do age a bit more gracefully than others, LOL!!! Ok...yea...I'm a pig...I know. Ahem...sorry...excuse me (LOL)...either way I do think there is an aesthetic issue that really needs to be considered. Again in my own case, "new and shiny" is very appealing to me.

On the other hand, perhaps I have just lived with cats too long and I'm easily distracted by shiny objects! LOL!

Ok...this really is just my own opinion here as always but the way I see it, if I were going to fork out the break for something like a Custom Shop instrument, again why would I want something that looks old and beat up regardless of how well it plays? If the guitar plays well and sounds great (as designed to my own personal specifications), I would want the thing to look as good as it played...and to me that insinuates looking like "new". What's more is that if I really wanted a beat up used guitar, I'd just buy a beat up used guitar.





Again I think the RW's...for better or for worse...were a natural evolution....something we should have seen coming. Ok...I really don't like the things myself, but then I'm not crazy about relics either...I just don't personally like that "look" regardless of the quality. I dunno...I guess another analogy is blue jeans...I'd never buy pre-faded, pre-ripped jeans...if I'm going to buy a new pair of jeans, I want them to -look- like a new pair of jeans. That said, the RW's are really something of a trend I think...it's "retro" and retro is really in right now.

Personally I don't see where as they really had much affect as far as the artistic significance goes either...I'm sure anyone who's ever played or bought a RoadWorn who -likes- that kind of look, realizes that he/she is NOT playing a $4000 Custom Shop Relic instrument. It's two very separate things...that just happen to look somewhat similar...and I think most folks do tend to realize that.

Also...and I really have to say this...when we're talking about "iconic" guitars such as Blackie or SRV's #1, I think it's worth remember that those guitars were not made that way. I could be wrong but I'd guess that at one time those guitars were brand spankin' new at one time (or at least their parts were). They got to the shape they're in by being played...and played -a lot-. That vibe...that "mojo" if you will is something that even a master luthier can't really build in to a guitar...either the guitar has that certain something or it doesn't.

For me, it's mostly about "aesthetics" I guess. I really have nothing against individually crafted instruments that were intended as replicas of their iconic counter-parts but I just don't understand the appeal of something just because it looks old and beat up and I really can't see spending extra for it...RW or Relic...simply based on that alone. In other words, in my mind a guitar doesn't have to look old and beat up to play well and sound good and just because it does look old and beat up doesn't mean it is going to sound or play good. Personally I like something that looks good, plays well and sounds good...pretty much in that order I guess.

Peace,
Jim

its all in what you like....i myself want my guitars to look new the day i die even if its 50 years from now (please let it be 50 years from now)

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2008 Am. Std. Strat
2008 Am. Deluxe Strat
2010 Am. Deluxe Strat
2011 Am. Std. Strat
2011 Am. Std. Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe
Hot Rod Deville 410

Amen!!! Same with me. I went to my local GC and saw this olympic white roadworn. Played it and liked how it played, feel and sound. I like the feel of that bare wood on the neck. It felt like a glove to me. I could care less how it looked, but for it seems to most people here how it looks is more important than how the guitar plays and sounds. I've had this road worn for about two years now and have not even picked up my USA made strats since . I've already taken it to my guitar tech for a fret recrown. May need a new fret job soon.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/gmlasam

I am glad I found this topic. I was about to ask the same question. Why would anyone want to buy a guitar that appeared to be 20 years played? I think it's a generation gap thing. I am an older player and have always thought that relic'd guitars are absurd. Buying a guitar to make it look as though as you have paid your dues. If relic'd guitars had never been made and if I were told that this would happen to the guitar market...I would not have believed it. "Yes, and you can have that in 'piece of junk' finish for $500 extra". Unbelievable.

Jim my point concerning claptons blackie and malmsteens guitar is that their tribute guitars, the dent for dent replica's are considered art pieces as much as they are guitars. Just the same as the Hula or Crash guitars.

I'm sorry I just cant get the idea out of my head that when a masterbuilder shapes wood. Carves a neck gets it all together and creates a one off work of art. That should he then decide 'I want that guitar to look fifty years old' and goes to excessive lengths to age the thing. That it should be subject to ridicule on some internet forum. Not that your ridiculing it Jim, but some are that wouldnt have a clue about whats involved. They are judging the thing purely on aesthetics, not as what the thing is. Which brings me back to the roadworns belittling the relic range.

You as a guy who's handy at painting guitars should understand that, even if you dont like it. Look at that burst you did on that squier body with that what should have looked horrible figuring near the upper horn. You turned that into a absolute bonus of the guitars appearance. You never mentioned it at the time but it must have taken some real work. I see a good relic job as being just the same process. Take what you've got and enhance it. Myself I cant paint the garage door but I like most blind men can tell the effort and attention to detail this must have taken.

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No no and no

I'm also an older player. Started playing guitar at 13 back in 78'. So in about 32 years of playing, you acquire a feel and tone of the guitar you play. So feel, tone and playability becomes priority over looks. The roadworn strat did it to me when I first played it and has now been my main guitar over my USA made strats. So the generation gap theory is a moot point in my case as I've had my share of guitar collection that I have acquired over the 30 something years of playing.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/gmlasam