Dissapointed

jnastyNE · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:30 am

TrapperDoo wrote:

I don't think Strats sound too good under high gain. They sound great from clean to moderately gritty. They are not metal guitars.

Let me clarify - real strats with single coil pick ups. If you put humbuckers in the guitar it is not a strat anymore, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but it is not a stratocaster. EVH, Jake E Lee, et al did not use real strats. They hot rodded them with humbuckers and they sound great. They don't soound like SRV, though, which is the strat sound.

Not a strat anymore? Wow. Is a Les Paul with humbuckers not a Les Paul, cause ya know they came with P90s first.

nikininja · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:47 am

cvilleira wrote:

StratyLesPaul wrote:

I just got back my MIM Strat and i had 69 pups installed. Since i play rythem with it for like hard rock Ive been dissapointed. Is there any way i could improve the tone?

Did you take that .022 cap out and put a .1uf in?

You really are far better off with the high attack nature of the stock ceramic pickup in this instance. Just put the old pickups back in.
69's are a very mid scooped pickup. Scooping mids doesnt lend itself well to any kind of powerful sound.

The reason hendrix sounded good at woodstock is this

into this

into

then this

Just imagine the sound pressure of 3 plexis on meltdown through 6 cabs acting on your strings. :lol:

Anyway without the complete contents of picture 1 forget sounding like Hendrix. Its easy to see that there wasnt much of his pickups coming through in his sound.

lomitus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm **Posts:** 1598

01GT eibach wrote:

I also go for a fairly heavy tone with an SSS Start thru a Line 6 head (driving a cabinet w/ two old EVM 12Ls) with a Digitech RP350. I know people here like to hate on solid state, but I get massive tone. The Strat is a MIM Std Strat w/ Tex Mex pups. I also have a '79 Gibson SG Std w/ ceramic 496R/500T humbuckers. I get a great heavy tone with the Strat, but it -- because of the single coils -- sounds a lot "thinner" than the creamy SG. But I can make the Strat sing, getting a tone -- to me -- laying halfway between late '70s EVH and Robin Trower. But when I want that heavy crunch it sounds like you are seeking, I grab the Gibson. Honestly, one is not better. They are totally different, and I love them both. But don't be so quick to discount the CS '69 pups ... it sounds like they are delivering some tones that you were not looking for, but may learn to really enjoy and explore.

Just an extra quicky $.02 here...

Not sure if that was actually aimed at my comment or not but just for the record I don't really have any problem with solid state amps...one of my main amps is an old Lab L5...100 watt, 2x12 solid state combo and I love it. The point I was trying to make was in regards to the OP's Spider III...we're basically talking a $200 digital modeling amp there and I'm sorry...any $100 to $200 amp like that is going to sound a bit "lacking" compared with a real amp. I've never tried the Line 6 heads or anything but those little Spiders just sound...ummm..."cheap" to my ears. I also have a little Fender Princeton 65R and while sure...it's a nice little practice amp, if I were doing metal or hard rock I really wouldn't expect it to deliver any kind of serious sound.

Anyways, I just wanted to clear that up...I would probably be the last person to really consider myself as a "tube purist" by any means but I really felt it was worth mentioning that you're simply never going to get a "Marshall stack sound" out of a cheap little modeling amp and that could certainly be part of the OP's problem.

Peace,
Jim

Marvin65 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:37 am

nikininja, that is a fact.. Hendrix didn't play direct into the amp very often..and Richie Blackmore used modded marshalls and vox amps. Heavy rock requires effects,lots of volume and big speakers, :lol:

63supro · **Joined:** Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm **Posts:** 8827

There was lots of hard rock in 69. Hendrix, The Who...................
Still not a great choice in a pickup.

lomitus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm **Posts:** 1598

63supro wrote:

There was lots of hard rock in 69. Hendrix, The Who...................

Another -excellent- example. Like Nick's very wonderful commentary about Hendrix above (which is right on the money), what did Townsend use back then...Hiwatts and Marshalls? As I recall my "history" wasn't Pete Townsend the one who went to Jim Marshall looking for a "bigger" speaker cabinet which basically turned out to be an 8x12 cabinet...that later got cut in half creating the now infamous "stack"?

My point again is that you simply can NOT get that kind of sound...regardless of pickups...out of a little $200 digital modeling amp like a Spider III. Just ain't gonna happen. Don't get me wrong, this digital world we live in is a truly wonderful thing and it opens up a great deal of creative possibilities for musicians but there's only so much a "simulation" can actually do. In the Hendrix example above, you'll simply never get a single 12" speaker to sound like 24 speakers! Add the effects and of course the man playing the guitar itself and as Nick suggested, the pickups are in fact pretty irrelevant there.

So with that if the OP's goal is actually "hard rock", a re-evaluation of his/her rig really may be in order if he/she is looking for such a specific sound...again it was probably a poor choice for pickups but I can't honestly say that's the only contributing factor there. If money is an issue that one may simply need to be pragmatic and make some compromises...as I said in another thread recently, you can't really expect champagne on a beer budget.

Peace,
Jim

Naughtius Maximus · **Joined:** Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:55 pm **Posts:** 78

I have owned piles of very expensive and exotic gear in my life. I tried one of those little line six modeling amps with a ten inch speaker and thought it was pretty neat. As far as I could tell it did everything from spanky clean to death metal and everything in between pretty well. They're not audiophile grade amplifiers or anything but expensive gear isn't going to improve your guitar playing anyway.

mAx___ · **Joined:** Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 pm **Posts:** 102

Joelski wrote:

Okay, that's one. How about the other million people that do play a strat for the specific sound it makes?

mAx___ wrote:

Joelski wrote:

The point of single coils is that jangly Fender clean to mildly gritty tone, but certainly not hard rock.

I disagree. Ritchie Blackmore invented hard rock on a stock Stratocaster.

Blackmore is the quintessential Strat sound to me. Listen to Machine Head, Fireball, etc. Very clean sound with good sustain, 100% Stratocaster.
A sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETeumVKeyqQ

01GT eibach · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:26 pm

lomitus wrote:

... Not sure if that was actually aimed at my comment ...

It was not. I just feel like I am in a similar boat as the OP playing a SSS Strat thru a Line 6. But I just wanted to convey what my rig is as I do not know what config the OP uses. To me, there is a significant difference between the full-featured L6 heads and their lower-cheaper combos. My old EVM speakers in my non-L6 2x12 cab are definitley better than what is most amps these days whether tubes or SS. For the record, I am not a huge fan of those lower-end combos either (and that is not just a solid-state thing -- some tube ones people rave about in this forum are really not that great IMO either).

TrapperDoo · **Joined:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:21 pm **Posts:** 53

lomitus wrote:

TrapperDoo wrote:

If you put humbuckers in the guitar it is not a strat anymore, in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with doing that, but it is not a stratocaster.

I'm sorry but I have to -completely- disagree with that sentiment. I have Duncan's in my '96 MIM and they don't change the fact that it's still a Strat at all. If anything saying that my Strat is anything other than a Strat just because I've chosen to mod it to my own personal taste is actually rather insulting. Yea, my old Kramer is nice and I've played some decent Jackson's and such over the years but very simply I play Strats because I like Strats...and having humbuckers in there doesn't change that one lick. Also, considering the number of Fender Strats that have come from -Fender- with humbuckers in them, with the Stratocaster name on them over the years...not to mention the Strats that come with Lace Sensors...you can't really argue with the folks that make the product there dude.

I could be wrong here but your perception of what makes a Strat seems as though it may be based on what Leo put out back in 1954 and while those are certainly fine instruments with a very coveted sound to say the least, that really shouldn't discount the evolution of the instrument as a whole. I'm sorry but to me that kind of logic is along the lines of saying that anyone who like's Ford Mustangs should all be driving '65s and that newer Mustangs aren't really "Mustangs"...which is obviously a load of hooey. A given individual may prefer the originals or "vintage" over the new but that doesn't make the new any less than what they are.

One of the truly beautiful things about a Strat...in my humble opinion at least...is that they are so easy to "personalize"...different necks, different hardware, different pickups...doesn't change the fact that they're still Strats! I mean honestly...if you think that having something other than single coils in a guitar makes it something other than a Strat, do you feel the same is true of the necks as well? Should Strats only have -one- neck shape? Are they all supposed to have the 6 screw trems...after all a lot of Am Std owners do actually like the 2 point trems...are those not Strats as well? What if someone chooses to replace their bridge saddles or nut with something like an after-market graphite...does that mean the guitar is no longer a Strat?? Are you -really- serious???

You are of course welcome to your own opinion but in this case I -really- have to disagree with it.

Jim

Peace, brother. I didn't mean to offend. Besides, who could ever be offended by anything that I say? I am no one. I'm just posting on here to chat with my fellow guitar brethren. It is just my opinion that Strats have a characteristic, unique , and recognizable sound when they are SSS. Put humbuckers in there and you can't tell that that a guitar is a Strat by just listening to it - hence my statement that (IMO) it is not a really a true Strat anymore when you put humbuckers in. That said, go ahead and put humbuckers in your guitar. I'm sure it sounds great - and I would never have any inclination to argue about it. I love all guitars and all the wonderful variety of sounds they make. It's just my opinion that Strats are what they are because of the SSS configuration. It's just me - Strats are Sweet Home Alabama, Sultans of Swing, Couldn't Stand the Weather, Let it Rain, Time, Another Brick in the Wall ... I know 'em when I hear 'em. For other types of songs I could play a Les Paul, or an Ibanez, or anything else with humbucking pickups and most people probably wouldn't know the difference.

Marvin65 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:39 pm

Thanks Max...Great link..Love It. Very heavy Blues licks..Awesome.

01GT eibach · **Posted:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:41 pm

TrapperDoo wrote:

Put humbuckers in there and you can't tell that that a guitar is a Strat by just listening to it - hence my statement that (IMO) it is not a really a true Strat anymore when you put humbuckers in.

Your assertion is very valid. But let me toss in a "however" here ... I recently completed a project Strat build with all Fender components, except I made it an HH with full-size Dimarzios (a PAF pro and a PAF Pro Joe Satriani). I don't know if it was the alder body, the particular pickup choice, or maybe both ... but the guitar is sonically much closer to my SSS alder Strat than my HH mohagany Gibson SG Std. That was not what I expected ...

straycat113 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:44 am

Well the whole 80s scene of putting in humbuckers led to what we all call now the super Strat which were Jacksons, Charvels , Kramers and the likes which are basically hybriding a Strat and Gibson-thanks Ed. The funny thing is Fender never really jumped on this bandwagon at the time like it should of.

nikininja · **Posted:** Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:18 am

I'm a firm believer that volume contributes far more to our tone than most people recognise.
Notice that all the archetypal rock sounds were recorded loud.

I for one like little digital modelers. I think their a fantastic indespensable addition to the typical guitarists home setup. The main thing with them is the near endless possibilities of tones, it can be a great inspiration to boldly go where no one has gone before.
Ok your not going to play Madison Square Gardens with a Flextone, but you'll get a superb bedroom tone out of one. 2 marshall 100watts wont do it, trust me I tried.

Even running both amps on 10 didnt produce a great tone, the rooms are just too small. (sabbath riffs at 12am new years eve :twisted:

) It will also make you a lot of enemies.
A smaller amp with smaller speakers doesnt suffer such problems though and retain a good bit of clarity at high volumes in a smaller room.

I wonder what Jeff Beck uses the SuperChamp XD for?
(Touching on the incognito rockstars thread on the lounge forum, If your here I really would like to know).
I bet given the problems he has with tinnitus that its home use.

guitslinger · **Posted:** Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:32 am

Hi Nik,Is the combo a 4211?If so they are fabulous amps,I have the 50W 4210 with a G-12-T-75 but for extra punch I run it through a 4-12 cab, quite a sound,but I guess that you know that already.

	Page 3 of 4	[ 57 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

	Page 3 of 4	[ 57 posts ]	Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Andorra	EN	ES	FR
Belgium	EN	DE	FR
Croatia	EN
Czech Republic	EN
Estonia	EN
France	EN	FR
Germany	EN	DE
Italy	EN	IT
Latvia	EN
Lithuania	EN
Malta	EN
Netherlands	EN
Poland	EN
Romania	EN
Slovakia	EN
Sweden	EN
United Kingdom	EN

Austria	EN	DE
Bulgaria	EN
Cyprus	EN
Denmark	EN
Finland	EN
Greece	EN
Hungary	EN
Ireland	EN
Liechtenstein	EN	DE
Luxembourg	EN	DE	FR
Monaco	EN	FR
Norway	EN
Portugal	EN
Slovenia	EN
Spain	EN	ES
Switzerland	EN	DE	FR	IT

Mod Shop

Custom Shop

Dissapointed

Who is online