I love, and I mean love, my MIM strat. That is all.

-Mike

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2000 MIM Stratocaster
1998 MIM Stratocaster
Super Strat built by me
1974 Hohner Les Paul
Fender/Squire Partsocaster
ESP/LTD KH2
ESP/LTD Explorer
ESP/LTD Eclipse EC50
Epiphone Flying V
Jackson Firestorm DX10D
Hohner Les Paul
Schecter C1+
Yamaha Acoustic

I love my MIM Tele I Love my MIM Jimmy Vaughn Strat,I love my MIA 65 Strat,I love my 04 50th Ann.MIA Strat,I love my MIA Jaguar,I love my MIA Mustang,Ilove my MIC Stratacoustic.They're all Fenders wherever they're made just as Hondas are still Hondas whether made in Japan,the US,Europe or Canada.A Fender is a Fender no matter what the country of origin,they are all built to specs dictated by Fender USA in plants owned by Fender USA hence they are Fenders.

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'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

No offense to anybody. This made me laugh.

On a more serious note. We can't all be Shakespeare. Language and how it's communicated is in constant evolution anyway. That said, I try to speak and write with my best traditional American English.

Oh, and MIM vs MIA; for me, they each serve a purpose. <----- Did I punctuate that correctly?

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-Kirk

GUITARS
'12 Sonoran Acoustic - black (dated 10/31/12)
'13 Standard Strat
AMP
Vox ac4c1-bl
PEDALS
Compressor
Big Muff
Vox Stomplab 1G
Carbon Copy Delay

Thank you Protagorus. I am lost and really wanted to know what real Fender musicians think about this subect. I did not realize that it was a worn out subject because I am new to the forum and I will admit, did not take the time to do a search. Anyway, thank you all for the input.

Ok...I will admit that I'm playing devil's advocate here but by that same reasoning, because Leo started his company in the back room of his radio repair shop, does that mean that's where the company should still be? Instead of being produced in multimillion dollar facilities (regardless of global location), they should still be made on a small work bench in someone's personal work shop or garage?

At the risk of again being rude here, the world isn't the same place it used to be 50 years ago...it has become -a lot- smaller in recent decades...and Fender is -NOT- the same company that it was back then. Whether people like this or not or whether they accept it or not, we live in a global market economy where large manufacturers and multimillion/multibillion dollar corporations such as Fender can and do have facilities all over the world. More over, in the case of something like Fender of Mexico (or even Fender of Japan, etc), they use virtually the exact same equipment to manufacture those instruments that American Fenders are made on, to the specs provided -by- Fender, made by Fender craftsman...how can they really be anything other than Fender?

I'm curious...do you feel the same way about Squiers that are made in China or the models made in Indonesia or Japan? Squier was after all an American company as well...one that was around long before Fender was in fact.

Again I'm sure this is going to be seen as being quite rude but, personally I think your "sense of nationalism" is a bit outdated in regards to this.



Hhhhmmmmm...if these instruments aren't branded with the country of their origin, I have to wonder then -why- my '96 Fender Standard says "Made In Mexico" right on the front of the headstock (as do all of the newer MIM's I've seen)? The headstock of my made in Japan Squier says "Made in Japan" right on the front of the headstock as well and even my lowly little "Crafted In China" '08 Squier Standard has that on the back of the headstock. Curious...I wonder why those labels are there....



Hhmmm...I see...so then you must think that in 1923 when Epimanondas Stathopoulo changed the name of his father's company to "Epiphone"...a company that had already been in the US for 20 years by that point, he should have moved that company back to Greece or Turkey where his father started it?


I'm sorry but while this is certainly my own humble opinion here, I think most people would probably agree...the Epiphone brand we see today is more analogous to "Squier" and not Fender of Mexico. Fender of Mexico -is- still Fender with Squier being their "bargain brand" and Epiphone is the same way to Gibson.



So...all of those Les Pauls and such that have Epiphone on the headstock but have a "Gibson" truss rod cover...we're just imagining those?



Epiphone doesn't rely on the Gibson name huh? Wow.

I would also have to point out that in regards to your previous statement about them "branding the country of origin", at the least Fender MIM's have "Made in Mexico" right on the front of the headstock for everyone to see...I don't see anything like that here on that Epi.


As I said to the OP up there, you are certainly entitled to your opinions...but in this case I have to disagree with every last one of them.

Jim

I'll give you that some of the current Epiphones have the name Gibson on the truss rod cover. As a secondary tie in name to the Epiphone on the headstock. Sort of like "Squier by Fender", and I don't have an issue with it.

Yes back when Epiphone started making guitars, they were a NY USA Company. Then Gibson bought them out and closed them down. Now they are back as an offshore subsidary of Gibson. They don't claim to be Gibsons because they aren't.

Lets be honest
Yes the MIM's are great guitars but most of you MIM players would not have even looked at them if they hadn't had the Fender name on the headstock. FMIC even moved the Made in Mexico sticker to the back of the headstock recently to make the Country of origin less obvious (I wonder why the did that?). If the same guitar, came from the same plant,, made by the same luthiers, but had "GuitMex" or some other name on the headstock you would not be playing them.

Again it's must my personal opinion but I think that it's BS marketing to label the Mexican instruments as Fender's. FMIC did the right thing with the Squier line, but found out that because of the "name" they don't sell as well, for as much money, or move as many units, regardless of quality.

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"Life is like eating jalapenos. What you do today may burn your arse tomorrow"

I'm pretty sure They moved the Serial and origin to the back because aesthetically the front of the headstock was very cluttered with all that information up front. The new design just looks better, period. Also I think your argument is a little off. If Fender USA weren't called Fender any more, they wouldn't sell as well either. G&L the company Leo started after Fender were made by the man, and are made in the USA as well. Some people say they are actually better than Fenders, but I'm pretty sure they don't move as many units as Fender USA simply because a lot of people buy for the name brand. A brand gives people a sense of quality and assurance. There are plenty of no-name guitars are there that probably play better than the big names, but they are a hard sale because there is no history or perceived quality behind the name. I don't think there is nothing wrong with MIM Fenders being called Fenders. I don't own any at the moment, I only own CS, USA Fenders, and Squiers. I think it is analogous to Mercedes Benz being a German company but many of their cars are built right here in Vance, Alabama.

Oh...but your first post said "Epiphone doesn't however feel the need to rely on the Gibson name to sell instruments" but now that I've pointed that out, you "don't have a problem with that". Hmmmmm...



Yes, but in regards to Fender you said "Fender means USA made because that's where the company started"...so does that mean you somehow hold a difference opinion based on Epiphones. Seems to me that based on your original comments there you should believe the Epiphone should be an American company too.



Ok...to some degree I will give you that one. When I bought my first Strat, being the the young, naive soul that I was back then, I did want a "Fender" Strat. However even at that time, the location of the Fender plant didn't really matter to me. When my wife bought that '96 for me I had it down to an American and the MIM...I got the MIM because it had a -MUCH- better feel to me. More over, since then I have actually bought 5 -Squiers-...1 MIJ, 2 CIC, 2 Crafted in Indonesia (although I did turn around and sell the two cheapest ones in order to buy the MIJ). Last year I also built another Strat made mostly from Squier and MIM parts.

The point is that since those younger days of my naivety I have learned that country of origin really has very little to do with how good a guitar is.



I find these comments to be extraordinarily subjective at best. First, Fender had the "Made in Mexico" on the front of those headstocks for nearly 2 decades. This alone suggests that this was merely an aesthetic decision and not some "marketing ploy" as you seem to believe. Regardless, they -are- still "branded" as MIM even if it's on the back of the headstock now...as many of the new American's appear to be.

Also, I think that the support the MIM's get on this forum -MORE- than proves that people would still be playing them even if they had that "GuitMex" on the logo as you suggested...it doesn't change the fact that they are still a wonderful instrument. Yes...some people are shallow enough to buy and instrument based solely on where it was made but a great many more of us "working musicians" are simply more concerned with a decent quality instrument that happens to be reasonably affordable.




Again, I find this comment to be unbelievably subjective at best. I'm going to have to assume that you have some sort of privy to Fender's sales records for you to have made the statement....

Logic would seem to dictate that Fender probably sells more of the inexpensive Squiers than they do even MIM's let alone MIA's. Think about it...-lots- of people wake up one morning and say "I want to play guitar". Of those people in this entry level market, it's probably safe to say that less than 10% of them run out and blow $1000 or more on an American made instrument (probably less than 5%). -MOST- of them go out and buy a Squier...often something such as an Affinity or even a Bullet. Of those people...and I'm sure a great many music teachers can verify this...less than 10% stick with the instrument for more than 6 months. After they've been playing for a while, -then- they go out and buy something nicer such an MIM...a mid-range, semi-pro instrument. Some may move straight to an MIA but most folks seem to go for the middle of the road. Then once they've been playing for a while...maybe have more disposable income as well, then they go out and buy an MIA.

Ok...I will say that my comments there are certainly a bit subjective too. Personally I don't have access to those global sales records from Fender but to me it only seems logical that they actually sell more inexpensive instruments than the higher end models based on what I just wrote.

As far as any of this being "B.S. marketing", while I will certainly admit that a company such as Fender isn't above various marketing tactics, if that's -all- there was to it, Fender would have been out of business a great many years ago. Be honest...are you -really- going to switch to Pepsi if you're a Coke drinker just because of some cool new ad campaign?? Some people [/i]might be[/i] -that- gullible but most as a general rule most are not.

Fender does (for the most part) seem to understand their market very well and as such does cater to that market. In this case they -know- that not everyone who plays guitar needs or wants to spend $1000+ on an instrument...I certainly won't. Some folks will...and I'm sure that the folks at Fender -love- them! With that they do know however that many of us might spend $500 on a comparable instrument...that's not marketing b.s., it's just a good business practice. Multiple lines of instrument at multiple price points to cater to the whole range of potential customers...seems pretty smart in fact. In my mind, if the B.S. is -anywhere- it's in the higher end American instruments...are they better? Maybe a little. Are they worth $500 more than the MIM instruments? No freakin' way...they're not -that- much better.

Jim

I guess it's about time to toss a 5hit grenade into the works.Epiphone still makes guitars in the US in fact they have a line refered to as the US line, among them the Emperor,Excellente,the Elitist reissues .Even the John Lennon Casinos although the necks and bodies are MIJ the hardware and all assembly is done in the US.

_________________
'65 Strat,65 Mustang,65 Jaguar,4 more Strats,3 vintage Vox guitars,5 Vox amps,'69 Bassman with a '68 2-15 Bassman cab,36 guitars total-15asst'd amps total,2 vintage '60s Hammond organs & a myriad of effects-with a few rare vintage ones.

"To me, Fender means USA made because that's where the company started. If an instrument was made in a plant in another Country I feel that it should be branded as such."

As I remember Fenders were made in Fullerton with a mainly Mexican/Hispanic workforce.
So now they're being made in Mexico with a Mexican work force.
Leo Fender always had an eye on keeping production costs down. I don't think he would disapprove of MIM guitars, to him it would have made perfect business sense I'm sure.

whoa... i never meant to stir this pot so well but what the hey, (<---- gettin better with the periods and commas ) oh and just for farts and giggles i have punctuatia (i am terrified by periods commas exclimation points and you don't wanna know what happens if i have to use a question mark). honestly i do realize that my little rant was typed poorly, and for this i am very sorry. i was in a bit of a rush and will do the best i can to live up to my 5th grade ejamukashun . if you haven't noticed i am a bit of a smart arse so please take it all in stride. oh and i hate capitol letters aswell just givin you the heads up. as for my op all i was really trying to say is play whatever guitar you like, if its a cheap lp copy but you can make it scream and everone else says "man that thing sounds good but its a cheap-o" then i don't see the problem. to me it is as much, if not more the "feel" of a guitar than the finish or if the guy runnin the cnc machine was paid in dollars or pasoes(sp?) <---that hurt more than you know. i could care less if the git fiddle is black with locking tuners, or a sunburst hss with strap locks. if it feels right to my hands and ears then all is right in "guitarland".

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"Up and down that road in our wornout shoes talkin bout good things and singin' the blues"-SRV

You make some good points, for sure.The guitar is just a tool in the hands of a craftsman.Too many people get hung up on where its made or where its not made.Both sides of the argument are a bit tiresome ,for sure.The main point is the only opinion that matters is your own.If your guitar fills your needs and you dig it and you enjoy playing it, nothing else really matters.Where it is made, how much you paid for it doesnt really matter.Fender is a smart company,if people arent buying a particular guitar, they discontinue it.My number one guitar is my SRV.Not because I paid more for it, but because it fits my hands better than any of my other strats and I can get tones out of it and licks from it that sets it apart from my other guitars.Like any other craft ,for me its the best tool for the job.And its not just my imagination,my bandmates hear it too.Thats the defining factor with any guitar ,is it the best tool in your hands?There is no right or wrong answer to the mim vs mia question.They are all great guitars,its how it is in your hands that matters and only you can answer that question.