How to spot a fake...

Lightnin MN · **Joined:** Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:14 pm **Posts:** 2561

Admittedly, I am a noob here.

But, in my few weeks of being on this Forum, I am amazed at the number of people trying to verify the authenticity of their guitars.

I acknowledge that there are a lot of nare-do-wells out there hawking pretenders and counterfeits.

But I can't help wonder in the back of my mind whether threads such as this propagate the problem by honing the skills of the counterfeiters.. ??

Maybe we're all best served by simply directing these OP's to the Fender Consumer Affairs Dept. instead of so specifically pointing out where the anomolies are.

cheers!

John C · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:46 am

Warcake wrote:

hi guys, im currently staying in the philippines, and im planning on picking up either of these 2 tele's.. mind helping me out? ive ran their serials and they seem to check out.

1992 mim: http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?top ... msg3785255

2008 mim: http://talk.philmusic.com/index.php?topic=278248.0

Warkcake - those both look legit to me. I'm not seeing any red flags on either one. Of course you can't be 100% sure about the electronic changes to the 1992 without taking it apart, but at least the visible upgrades like brass saddles are there.

John C · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:56 am

Lightnin MN wrote:

Admittedly, I am a noob here.

But, in my few weeks of being on this Forum, I am amazed at the number of people trying to verify the authenticity of their guitars.

I acknowledge that there are a lot of nare-do-wells out there hawking pretenders and counterfeits.

But I can't help wonder in the back of my mind whether threads such as this propagate the problem by honing the skills of the counterfeiters.. ??

Maybe we're all best served by simply directing these OP's to the Fender Consumer Affairs Dept. instead of so specifically pointing out where the anomolies are.

cheers!

Lightnin - I know; I go back and forth with that aspect of these threads helping the counterfeiters get better. I guess it's the juror decision - is it better for a guilty man to go free (i.e. give these people info to make better fakes) than for an innocent man to go to prison (i.e. someone spend their hard-earned money on a fake).

While I hate to arm the counterfeiters with information, I guess I prefer to provide it to the forum at large. Unfortunately we can't rely on Fender's Consumer Affairs to verify everything - their information database only goes back to 1993; for earlier years (1985-1992) it becomes "lets see what materials we might have in storage" exercise. A good example are those 1980s Fenders that don't have a country of origin but are evidently MIJ - Rob Schwarz wound up tracking down some old catalogs but that's all he has. And things are likely even more sketchy when we look at the end of the CBS era.

Lightnin MN · **Joined:** Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:14 pm **Posts:** 2561

John C wrote:

Lightnin - I know; I go back and forth with that aspect of these threads helping the counterfeiters get better. I guess it's the juror decision - is it better for a guilty man to go free (i.e. give these people info to make better fakes) than for an innocent man to go to prison (i.e. someone spend their hard-earned money on a fake).

While I hate to arm the counterfeiters with information, I guess I prefer to provide it to the forum at large. Unfortunately we can't rely on Fender's Consumer Affairs to verify everything - their information database only goes back to 1993; for earlier years (1985-1992) it becomes "lets see what materials we might have in storage" exercise. A good example are those 1980s Fenders that don't have a country of origin but are evidently MIJ - Rob Schwarz wound up tracking down some old catalogs but that's all he has. And things are likely even more sketchy when we look at the end of the CBS era.

OK... Fair Enough...I see your point...

But then, if someone spots it as a Fake, wouldn't it be most prudent to simply state it's a Fake rather than point out what may sometimes be a very unique (yet subtle) anomoly which labels it as such.. ??

cheers

CT Sean · **Joined:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:59 am **Posts:** 44

Lightnin MN wrote:

OK... Fair Enough...I see your point...

But then, if someone spots it as a Fake, wouldn't it be most prudent to simply state it's a Fake rather than point out what may sometimes be a very unique (yet subtle) anomoly which labels it as such.. ??

cheers

Seems the most likely follow up to "it's a fake" is "how can you tell". I personally think these discussion are very helpful. the "common man" should know the most common things that identify a fake as a fake. Knowledge is power, right?

Regarding providing knowledge to counterfeiters, that knowledge is already out there on countless websites. Someone that really wants to make a good fake has endless resources to do it "right"

The vast majority of fakes I've seen (granted I haven't seen a ton) are pretty darn obvious fakes. Junk necks on Squier bodies - that sort of thing. I think the big counterfeit manufacturers really don't care about accuracy and don't need to sell a whole lot to make a profit. The more accurate the counterfeit, the more time and effort and cost has to go into making it.

xiaoqin · **Joined:** Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:20 pm **Posts:** 1

I read interviews with Keith Richards and apparently he leaves his strings on there until they're turning black...but not sure if they are actually rusty Hermes Shoulder Hermes Steven Hermes Birkin

archer63bj · **Joined:** Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:07 pm **Posts:** 1

Hi There,

I've been recently on EBAY mostly for project guitars, something to play with in retirement. I came across a silver cheap USA Stratocasters. They are in China. They are listed as NEW. I ran the serial number and it came up Corona Plant 2006-2007. I went on looking further on the list of guitars and found an identicle guitar and the serial number matched the first one. Imagine that. I can say this. I have never bought a guitar(any Brand) on Ebay that i liked, and i've bought a bunch. I would never buy a guitar from China. The post put out this day on Sat 10-27-2012 is a great overview and I am a firm believer that all that play should be educated before there PUNKED.

johnnydunker · **Joined:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:18 am **Posts:** 1

Hi there, this is my first post to fender lounge, would be very appreciative of any of your thoughts on this guitar which I'm not sure is a fake or not - the seller mentions that he cannot verify its authenticity so maybe I have already answered my own question:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300800468485? ... 97.c0.m619

the headstock seems to be characteristic and have a pat number that I have only previously seen on a telecaster.

many thanks,

john

Twelvebar · **Posted:** Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:57 pm

Lightnin MN wrote:

John C wrote:

Lightnin - I know; I go back and forth with that aspect of these threads helping the counterfeiters get better. I guess it's the juror decision - is it better for a guilty man to go free (i.e. give these people info to make better fakes) than for an innocent man to go to prison (i.e. someone spend their hard-earned money on a fake).

While I hate to arm the counterfeiters with information, I guess I prefer to provide it to the forum at large. Unfortunately we can't rely on Fender's Consumer Affairs to verify everything - their information database only goes back to 1993; for earlier years (1985-1992) it becomes "lets see what materials we might have in storage" exercise. A good example are those 1980s Fenders that don't have a country of origin but are evidently MIJ - Rob Schwarz wound up tracking down some old catalogs but that's all he has. And things are likely even more sketchy when we look at the end of the CBS era.

OK... Fair Enough...I see your point...

But then, if someone spots it as a Fake, wouldn't it be most prudent to simply state it's a Fake rather than point out what may sometimes be a very unique (yet subtle) anomoly which labels it as such.. ??

cheers

I don't really see any of this as helping counterfeiters, Strats/Teles/Lp's etc. are 50's designs at heart still. there are tonnes of 'em around, tonnes of pictures. All the info and measurements to make perfect copies is out there, and easy as pie to get.

the reason that the fakes aren't perfect copies isn't that it's hard to do, but frankly, that they don't have to be perfect, or even close.

they will always be done as fast and as cheaply as they can. info like is gives the uninformed, unwary, and the people who don't know what to look for a resource.

but right now it's not worth the extra expense for the fakers to make perfect copies.

Ance · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:04 pm **Posts:** 9

Someone knows if out there are Fake Fender Mustang Guitars? The stratocaster and the Telecaster has a lot of copies but what about the Mustang?

John C · **Posted:** Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:22 am

Ance wrote:

Someone knows if out there are Fake Fender Mustang Guitars? The stratocaster and the Telecaster has a lot of copies but what about the Mustang?

I don't recall any fake Mustangs (as in guitars with faked Fender decals) but I do recall some Mustang copies from back in the 70s from at least one Far Eastern brand. I just don't remember if they were Ibanez, Greco, Tokai, Fernandez, or some not-well-known brand.

Mustangs have always had a bit of a following, but until Nirvana hit it big with Cobain playing one they weren't selling at any real premium. From the 1970s through the late 1980s you could usually turn up a used Mustang for anywhere from $150-$500 (depending on the year, and you would pay the higher price for the 60s models) there really wasn't much need to fake one.

Ance · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:04 pm **Posts:** 9

John C wrote:

I don't recall any fake Mustangs (as in guitars with faked Fender decals) but I do recall some Mustang copies from back in the 70s from at least one Far Eastern brand. I just don't remember if they were Ibanez, Greco, Tokai, Fernandez, or some not-well-known brand.

Mustangs have always had a bit of a following, but until Nirvana hit it big with Cobain playing one they weren't selling at any real premium. From the 1970s through the late 1980s you could usually turn up a used Mustang for anywhere from $150-$500 (depending on the year, and you would pay the higher price for the 60s models) there really wasn't much need to fake one.

Thanks! for your answer. I really love the Mustang Model, the body, the sound and the stetic of the guitar itself, I'm not a big guy and I have small hands so it's perfect to me.

gofmusic · **Joined:** Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:59 pm **Posts:** 3

Whats the chance of having a Fender Stratocaster MIM with a single ply pickguard? The serial number is MN6231037... is it a fake?

ted j · **Posted:** Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:15 am

johnnydunker wrote:

Hi there, this is my first post to fender lounge, would be very appreciative of any of your thoughts on this guitar which I'm not sure is a fake or not - the seller mentions that he cannot verify its authenticity so maybe I have already answered my own question:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300800468485? ... 97.c0.m619

the headstock seems to be characteristic and have a pat number that I have only previously seen on a telecaster.

many thanks,

john

It's a definate fake
The pickguard is the wrong shape (rounded on bottom horn, too big on top horn side ) and the bridge pickup is angled wrong

CT Sean · **Joined:** Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:59 am **Posts:** 44

gofmusic wrote:

Whats the chance of having a Fender Stratocaster MIM with a single ply pickguard? The serial number is MN6231037... is it a fake?

Classic 50's and Classic Player 50's should have single ply pickguards. Or someone could have installed a single ply pickguard.

It's otherwise impossible to tell here with just a serial. You can email the serial# to fender and they can give you the stock specs of that guitar, but if you want input here you really have to post pics or a link to pics.

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