I have found myself putting a major choke hold on the neck. I am self taught and trying to break a few bad habits, this being one of them. The other is my constant use of what I call the "cheating" open G (thumb on the low E while muting the A and middle finger bridging the high E and B all on the third fret)

I consider the cheating G a minor offense, because I really like that G sound (I think it is really a G5)

Any suggestions on breaking the habit of choking the neck?

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/UCtheband
2012 American Standard Strat Charcoal Froast
2009 Standard Strat Sunburst Brown
Blues Junior Tweed NOS
2007 Line6 Spider Jam

Why would you want to break it? I actually had to learn how to choke the neck to play all those cool Hendrix chords and a bunch of SRV licks (both of them were mostly self taught by the way, there's no shame in that). I'm sure there are many guitar teachers in the world who could have whack your thumb back down behind the neck with a phone book because it's "wrong" to hold the neck like that. But unless you're playing classical guitar you don't really need to worry about it. It's like being left handed or right handed, do what feels comfortable.

That said, it would be a good thing to learn to play both ways. Holding and playing the guitar in a classical style in addition to what you're doing now. That way if you ever come across something that you can't play with a choke hold you won't be stumped. Personally I switch between the choking the neck and playing in the classical/metal style of keeping my thumb behind the neck. It just depends on what part of what song I'm playing. Do whatever as long as it isn't a super bad habit like only playing with two fingers. Although come to think of it Django Reinhardt played a lot better with two fingers than most people can play with all five on both hands. [/i]

_________________
Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccalairdmusic
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckslaird
Instagram: http://instagram.com/beckslaird

Thanks for the advice. I am not so much talking about the "baseball type" of grip on the neck. I feel that I grip it too tight introducing unneeded stress into my playing. I am not concerned about the way I am griping it but the force.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/UCtheband
2012 American Standard Strat Charcoal Froast
2009 Standard Strat Sunburst Brown
Blues Junior Tweed NOS
2007 Line6 Spider Jam

try relaxing a bit while you play, i totally agree with tgs.
trying to unlearn a "bad habit" may just change your style, your mojo.

_________________
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."

oogway, kungfu panda 2008

Well I totally disagree with choking the neck as being a bad habit and find it a very important technique. Since my injury and need of surgery the only way I can play a bit is what you would call proper technique placement of the thumb. I cant bend a note nor can I play rhythm with chord embelishments ala Hendrix, plus the higher up on the neck I go it becomes almost impossible to fret notes on the high strings.

This is a technique and a very useful and important one. You really need to wrap your thumb around the neck to get easy and proper leverage to bend strings, just try and bend them with your thumb in the middle of the neck. Also I play a lot of Hendrix /Mayfield style rhythm and you need your thumb to fret base notes or even jazz chord voicings.

Now the thumb in the middle of the neck is proper for sweep picking and for wide stretches or fast diatonic three note per string runs. The bottom line is you need to be able to play both ways as they both serve a purpose. To be honest I sound really nothing like myself these days without the use of my thumb. If I could change anything I would change the way I pick and would rather pick with a closed grip than with my fingers fanned out but it just feels to weird.

Unless it is totally hindering your progress I would not worry about it. If you are playing Blues or Blues based Rock music you are playing correct in my book. If you want to shred well then it will be kind of impossible to pull off some techniques that way and you have to adapt. But there really is no right or wrong ways to play guitar.

Thumb-G is NOT cheating. If so, then Hendrix was a cheater

_________________
________________________________

- Brad

Band: www.ghostsoftheparting.com
Studio: www.maplelanerecording.com

Ok...I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the odd man out here again (who? me???) in that I think "chocking the crap out of the neck" is a -bad- thing and learning proper technique is a -good- thing...and here's why...

Back between '99 and '02 I was the drummer for my wife and I's band and at that time, I really had no technique at all. Usually I just hit the damn things as hard as I could and hoped like hell it was rhythmic and musical, LOL!!! Then in early '02 I was in a bad car accident that had severely affected my neck and shoulders and I simply couldn't play drums for the longest time after. Once I did go back to playing drums again, I found that I could no longer "hit from the shoulder" the way I used to...I -had- to learn proper technique or simply give up playing drums altogether. I have also found over the years that this very much applies to my guitar playing as well. Now that I'm getting older I'm finding that a lot of those old "bad habits" that I never used to think about (like not planting my thumb on the back of the neck) can really start causing me some serious pain.

I certainly can't speak for others here but it seems that more and more I'm always hearing about a guitar player who had to go in for carpel tunnel surgery. In fact this just happened this last week...with this new band I'm in, we're trying to find a second guitar player. The bass player knew one guy who he felt would really compliment my style of playing but the guy can't do it because he just had carpel tunnel surgery last year...still can't really play guitar. Don't even get me started on all of the guitar players who have back issues in part because of their poor posture while playing! I'm sorry to disagree with the general consensus here but personally I think that if your choking that neck all the time you're putting excessive strain on your hands and wrists when you really don't have too...and sooner or later it could come back and bite you in the arse.

Is changing your technique going to change your sound? Yes...it probably will, however that may not be a bad thing at all. Learning proper technique will typically improve your playing and if nothing else, it gives you one more tool in your playing arsenal...you can still choke that neck occasionally when you need to but by learning to not choke it all the time, you don't end up being a "one trick pony" like so many others do.

As far as tips go, I will say that this really is one of those things that's "easier said than done". Learning good, proper technique is -NOT- going to happen over-night. In my case as a drummer, pain was of course a great motivator...it always is but, it really took me several months to "re-learn" how to play and to this day I still have to remind myself to "sit up straight...shoulders back...focus on my playing...", etc.. Once a bad habbit is there, it will probably be there for a very long time. The only real advice I can offer is patience. You have to adjust your mental attitude about playing and you -have- to practice playing correctly. You seem to be aware that you have these issues (since you posted this to begin with) so that in and of itself is a very good start....many people never realize they have a "problem" until it's too late. I would suggest setting aside some separate practice time...time when your not playing with a band or working on band material and just practice technique. Sit there and do scales and such where you're not going to be focused on the material but simply how you are playing it. Divide your practice time if you need to...spend the first 1/2 hour practicing proper technique and then the rest of the your time working on material and trying to apply what you're learning in that first half hour to what you already know.

Again, just my own $.02 worth....good luck to you.
Jim

Thanks for all the good advice, although I think I have still confused the issue.

My worry is not where my thumb is or what it is doing. It is how hard I find myself squeezing the neck for chords. That is what I am referring to as choking the nech.

My thumb position varies from middle of th neck for barre chords to baseball grip for what I know will call the Hendrix G (thanks for that tip bradjacob, I truly thought of it as a bad habit but it appears I have stumbled onto greatness )

I know I could play smoother and maybe quicker, although that is not my style, if I could develope a softer "hand". I may be wrong, but I am equating it to golf. If you choke the crap out of your grip, especially the control hand, your shots will be way off and you spend more energy hitting a crappy shot. Grip it firmly but with a lighter touch, think of holding a tiny bird in your hand hard enough to control the bird and not let it go but not so tight you kill it, and your shots improve.

Since I am new at this I very well could be wrong. That happens a lot, ask my wife, but I digress. When I play Smoke on the Water, I find it a chore to finsh up the song because my hand is hurting by the time the outro comes along. I believe that it is my tight grip doing this.

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/UCtheband
2012 American Standard Strat Charcoal Froast
2009 Standard Strat Sunburst Brown
Blues Junior Tweed NOS
2007 Line6 Spider Jam

OK, I get what you're talking about now. I haven't had that problem myself, but it sounds like something that since you're aware of, you can fix. My best advice would be to just keep practicing and make an effort to try and press down only as hard as it takes to fret the string without buzz. It's yet another thing to think about when you're playing, but like anything else it'll become natural soon enough.

You could also try switching to slightly heavier strings. You have to press down harder anyway with heavier strings, so they may suit your technique better. I'm not talking about .13's or .12's or anything, but you may want to try just one step up from whatever you're using now. So if you're playing .9's, try .10's. Just be sure and get your guitar set up when experimenting with string gauges.

_________________
Website: http://www.rebeccalaird.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccalairdmusic
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckslaird
Instagram: http://instagram.com/beckslaird

The only thing I'm going to add on thumb position is that "wrapping it around" as many people do puts extra strain on your wrist. In other words, just because lots of people, including Hendrix did it, doesn't mean it's actually "good form". I'm sure it's ok occasionally but I wouldn't make a "habit" out of it all of the time.



Speed is a "tool"...it's nice to have it when you need it. Good example, take a look at David Gilmour...he's not necessarily "fast" but the speed is there when he chooses to use it. That said, proper technique will help to facilitate this. Sometimes "finesse" will get you a lot further than sheer, raw power.



Good analogy actually. I guess that some of this really depends on what kind of music you play. With myself for example, if I'm playing something like "Tush" by ZZ Top, then ya...I'll really bear down on the neck and strings (with both hands in fact) and really "dig in" but if I'm playing something like "Spooky" by the Classic IV, then that style is -completely- inappropriate. In my case I have absolutely no desire to be in any kind of "tribute band" and because I typically play a lot of different styles from classic rock to oldies to blues, I have to be familiar with various styles and typically use the style that is appropriate to the tune....while still making it sound like "me" of course .



Ok...this was really the main reason I wanted to respond to this right away...I just came up from the studio and was just working on that tune about 5 minutes before coming up here. LOL!

Lemme give you a little tip on that particular song...don't work so hard! The main riff is actually stupid simple. Ok...I don't know how your playing it and I could be wrong but I suspect that you're probably trying to use full bar chords(?)...don't. The main riff in that tune is actually done on only 3 strings with only 2 of them being played at a time...2 fingers, 3 strings...power chords. Use your ring finger to hit the first "chord" on the A and D string at the 5th fret (aka bar just the A and D strings at the 5th fret) then use your index finger to hit the D and G strings at the 3 fret then the ring finger again on the D and G at the 5th fret (and the slide of course from the 6th fret)...that's it...that's the main riff. If you're actually doing full bar chords, yea...you're going to wear your hand out VERY quickly! LOL!!! For the verses I do use full bar chords there to go back and forth between the Gm and the F but otherwise most of that tune is just power chords thru a good thick distortion (obviously) .

If by chance, that didn't make sense, check out this video on YT...his tone is awful but he has the main riff right on the nose...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcPSUe43nSI


Peace,
Jim

I'm a beginner and I find myself doing that (gripping the neck too hard, and fretting too hard) when I get frustrated with getting the chord right or what have you. Or I might just be uptight from the day's work. Sometimes the best and only thing is to just stop for the night, or at least for a while, until you can relax into it again.

I think it's like any other type of practice - if you're spending the time doing it wrong, you're better off not doing it.

My two bits.

lomitus well you did make a valid point about causing an injury as that is how my injury acurd. I developed a Neuroma on the inside joint of my thumb that makes it feel like the feeling you get when you bang your funny bone in your elbow and that shock sensation but only I get it when the inside joint hits the neck. The cause 30 years of playing with my thumb wrapped around the neck. A Neuroma is a small tumor of live nerve endings. It has also been two years now since I have been able to actually playout . I will be getting surgery this year and with the help of God be able to play like I used to.

Now as far as a baseball bat grip the longer you play the more you will realise that you do not need a lot of pressure to fret notes. In fact the tenseness is going to cause fatigue and also slow you down. Watch anyone that can fly around the neck and how effortless it looks. That is because they are totally relaxed. If you ever seen a tape of Yngwie showing how he picks he holds the pick so lightly you wonder how he does not drop it.

I've been playing for 31 years. I'm self-taught, and I still use a "Kung-Fu Death Grip" on the neck while playing. I put WAY too much pressure on the strings, but I can't help it. It must be a medical/mental problem, because I can never get my body to relax; I'm always tense. If I concentrate I can lighten up my grip a little, but it won't last long. I see people chord by barely putting pressure on the strings. I've tried that, and my chords always sound muffled/muted due to too little pressure. My fingers want to push the strings down to the fretboard all of the time (not that they actually touch, but it's close).

Then, if that isn't bad enough, the joints on my thumbs at the palms don't bend. This affects how I fret and where I place my thumb. And, I can't hold a pick like everyone else, so I have a very poor picking technique that keeps me from playing anything fast. You'd think that I would have given up by now, but I just keep on rockin' as best I can.

Ha! I tried to play slide, but I can't do it. I keep pushing the strings down too hard with the slide.

Usually people grip the neck hard as a result of trying to learn something new like a new chord or scale. I remember when I was first starting and I was trying to fret a basic E minor chord that I had dents in my fingertips for an hour after I was done trying to play it. As you become more comfortable you may start to feel less tension and that is a good thing. Tension takes away your feel and speed. It's hard to explain how to feel less tense but as you're playing try and take a few seconds and relax every once in a while. Shake the hands out and let them relax. As my guitar teacher told me once a baby can fret a note so think about that. You will find though that some people have a natural tendency to play with a little bit of a death grip and that may be how you play. It's ok to have a strong grip but just try and rid yourself of tension. Hendrix would play his guitars so violently at times that the neck would be loose by the end of the show and he did ok for himself. Just try and feel relaxed through your shoulders and forearms and your hands will be fine. This should naturally happen as you play more and get used to making certain chord shapes and playing scales too. Best of luck!