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Post subject: Guitar Finishing
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:48 pm
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I am thinking of building my own guitar. I don't mean making one, I don't have the tools. I am thinking of buying a body blank from someone like Stewart Mac and a finished neck also.

My main goal is to finish the guitar to my linking. However, I have close to zero artistic capability and I don't want to buy airbrushing gear either.

In my mind I see two options:
1. I am a former active duty Marine and would like to do a tribute. Something like a subdued waving American Flag front, white back with the Marine logo somewhere.

2. I am a HUGE St. Louis Cardinals fan so I am thinking solid Cardinal red with an STL emblem on the front, birds on a bat logo on the headstock and back.

My question is is it possible to use some type of decal for the "design". Can you paint a guitar, let's say red, then a clear coat, apply a decal of some type (if there is a recommended type I would like to hear about that) and then finish nitrocellulose on top?

Something like this is what I had in mind to create the decals
http://www.decalpaper.com/product-p/l825c.htm

I will be using an alder Stratocaster body and the maple w/maple fretboard Stratocaster neck, both at Stewart Mac's.

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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:54 pm
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A decal is an option, but big decals can be hard to work with.using fabric of some sort would be a better option. The process is called decoupage. The flower power, and paisley telecasters, and stratocasters are actually wallpaper for the pattern, and then lacquered over top, a colour band for the edge, and then clear coat t protect the paper. I have seen great finishes done with fabric too. I can see you easily finding a fabric to suit either project you mention.

It's a fairly involved process that I haven't done myself yet, but I have seen some very nice work.

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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:31 pm
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Twelvebar wrote:
A decal is an option, but big decals can be hard to work with.using fabric of some sort would be a better option. The process is called decoupage. The flower power, and paisley telecasters, and stratocasters are actually wallpaper for the pattern, and then lacquered over top, a colour band for the edge, and then clear coat t protect the paper. I have seen great finishes done with fabric too. I can see you easily finding a fabric to suit either project you mention.

It's a fairly involved process that I haven't done myself yet, but I have seen some very nice work.


I read about the fabric option..never thought of wallpaper....

Reading about decoupage made my head spin with the variety of opinions, mainly the hate it/love it swings. The hate it crowd expounds the opinion that this technique more than any other affects tone by what is described as almost a muting of the output.

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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:02 pm
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I'm just gonna toss my $.02 worth in here for the heck of it because I feel like typing :-).

As you're probably already starting to guess, there's a number of ways that you can go about what you're looking to do. This past year I refinished a Yamaha bass and did a "replica" if you will of the original Yamaha Motion B logo that would have been on the bass originally (it was long gone after 3 bad refinishes and a fire). In my case because I was looking to do a white decal on a black guitar and because my ink jet printer doesn't print "white", I ended up using transfer decal material and I printed an inverse of the design on the transfer paper then used an airbrush to paint the white in (I could have done this with a spray/rattle can but as I already had the air brush, it was more convenient). What I really liked about the transfer material is that it's really quite thin compared with other "decal" material and I have to say that it did work very well with my Lexmark Inkjet. Basically I did the body in black lacquer (acrylic), applied the transfer then top coated with 6 or 8 coats of clear lacquer (also acrylic). Here's the final results...


Image

Incidentally, it took me 2 weeks to figure out how to do this decal...I really experimented with a few different ways that just didn't work. It was actually a lady at a craft supply store (Pat Catan's) who put me on to the transfer paper. The point is, don't be afraid to experiment and be creative and if you get stuck, don't be afraid to ask around.

Material, wall paper, transfers/decals...there's no real right or wrong method and you'll have to decide for yourself based on your level of experience which one will work best for you. The one single thing that I would stress is to use a few practice pieces -BEFORE- you even tough a real guitar! Seriously...I wrecked two guitars and -a lot- of scrap wood before I finally got my own method down (fortunately they were really cheap guitars anyways...good to practice on). Whichever method you choose, like playing the guitar itself, this is still a skill and it's gonna take some practice...possibly a lot of practice before you get it right and you find what works best for you.

Now that said, as far as basic refinishing and what all's involved, a great place to start is ReRanch.com...they have some very good tutorials there on stripping and refinishing. There's nothing specific there about what you're looking to do but a great deal of it will still apply (i.e. prepping the wood, spraying the top coats, final polishing, etc).

BTW...since you mentioned it specifically please know that you don't have to buy airbrushing equipment to do a decent refinish. Yes...it does help, particularly if you're trying to do something fancy (such as a burst for example) but the bass in the picture above, while I used the airbrush for the logo, the finish itself...both the black and the clear coats, were all done with rattle cans. You do end up doing a bit more wet sanding, rubbing and buffing, but it can be done and done very well.

Also in regards to "artistic capability"...this is just my opinion but personally I think that's just a bunch of crap. People aren't "born" artists...or PC techs or plumbers or gas station clerks or machinists! "Art" is just like anything else...you have to learn and -if- you have enough passion for it then you end up doing it long enough that you eventually get good at it. It's just like playing a guitar...most people don't just walk up to a guitar and start playing the first time they pick it up...usually they have to play around with it for a while, in some cases they need to take lessons and they almost ALWAYS need to practice! Please do not let something as completely foolish as a perception of artistic capability ever stop you from trying things...you could just surprise yourself.

Again, just my $.02 worth here...I hope it helps!
Jim


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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:36 pm
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Jim, i really like that. great job.


As for the decoupage method robbing tone, those paisley tele's sound great, a lot of people really overplay the effect finish has on one.

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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:07 am
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As always guys, thanks for the help. I am very happy that I decided to step into this forum!

Lomitus that is a sweet looking finish on that base. I think I will grab some lumber and get to practicing, both finishing and making the decals.

This will take a while and I am not in any hurry anyhow, but good or bad I will post pics of what I do, and probably ask for more tips as I go about it!

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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:52 am
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Twelvebar wrote:
Jim, i really like that. great job.


As for the decoupage method robbing tone, those paisley tele's sound great, a lot of people really overplay the effect finish has on one.


Hey TB,
I really have to agree with that...I'm sure there is a very subtle difference in regards to tone when it comes to finish but on an electric guitar I've always believed that between the pickups, the amp and the other "hardware" that you don't really hear very much of the wood, let alone the finish on a guitar. Certainly with something like an acoustic a thicker finish could make a big (if not huge) difference but on an electric...I really tend to think that's quite negligible in most cases. I've got guitars that I've finished in lacquer and then I have guitars that have the original factory poly...there's not really that much of a difference in sound with all other things being equal. The single main reason I work with lacquers is that they're just easier for me to work with than Poly...nothing more and nothing less. I don't know exactly why but I've just never been able to get a really decent finish with poly's (and trust me...I've tried!). Even with furniture projects I just can't get any really decent results with any poly's that I've ever tried.

Anyways, I wouldn't "reject" any given refinishing technique based solely on whether I thought it was going to have a possible minor impact on the sound of the guitar...a really decent set of pickups will more than make up for that anyways.

Peace,
Jim


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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:48 pm
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lomitus wrote:
Image

Neat! Respect - 8)

BTW:
lomitus wrote:
Also in regards to "artistic capability"...this is just my opinion but personally I think that's just a bunch of crap. People aren't "born" artists...or PC techs or plumbers or gas station clerks or machinists! "Art" is just like anything else...you have to learn and -if- you have enough passion for it then you end up doing it long enough that you eventually get good at it. It's just like playing a guitar...most people don't just walk up to a guitar and start playing the first time they pick it up...usually they have to play around with it for a while, in some cases they need to take lessons and they almost ALWAYS need to practice! Please do not let something as completely foolish as a perception of artistic capability ever stop you from trying things...you could just surprise yourself.

I'd support every word of that. Right on.

Cheers - C


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