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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:37 pm
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Even if you throw perception out the window, it's still fact that a MIA Strat will retain more value than a MIM. I happen to own both, and have ones in each origin that I love. I also sell quite a few (custom assemblies)and one thing is still evident and that is that if I put say a MIM neck on an otherwise MIA guitar it will bring in more than 50% less money. That's not to say it's bad, because I happen to love the MIM Players Strat necks. If money were an object and I was building one for max playability that closely resembled what I liked about the MIA, then that's where I would save the money. The extra fret not being significant for me. For a few extra bucks though, I can find MIA Deluxe necks that I find to be as close to a finished Custom Shop neck that is out there. I also build some custom Jimi Monterey Strats and would love to be able to use a MIM 62 neck.(cheaper and easier to find) But I use a MIA 62 RI neck because the difference in money on that build would be over 1000.00 US. In that category nothing beats a MIA 62 RI neck.

It has been pointed out that the electronics on the MIM are not as good as the MIA. You can see this in the pots. But pickups are very subjective. I have a Jimmie Vaughan, which is all MIM and it sounds great, regardless of the perception of the pups. But it's a unique sound and I wouldn't swap out a thing. Standards sound rather plain, and for some it hits the sound they want in spades. For me, that's the candidate for surgery, and I can get it to sound exactly how I want it too. It's still a body made of Alder. (most of the time).

At a recent class I took at the Chicago School of Guitar Making, the owner there confided that he thought the MIM truss rods were better than the MIA. But that was a reluctant choice because he believes truss rods are evil anyway. He believes a well made neck should not move over time and that the truss rod is what causes the neck to move and thus need to be corrected by the truss rod itself. I've seen solid necks he's built with a solid unadjustable truss rod in them and they are as straight and true today as the day he made them. Adjustable truss rods are not better, it's what the buyer expects. Otherwise the perception is that solid necks are inferior. Leo installed them reluctantly to keep up with Gibson.

Currently there are plenty of choices to find in new MIM Strats. Road Worn's are near 900 USD. Nice fiddles, but I always put it back down and say to myself, I can't spend 900 bucks for a MIM Strat. I will buy the same Strat used for about half the money once they hit the market, but for that money, I'll buy a MIA and then beat it up myself. Further even though the MIA market retains value, you still can buy a decent used MIA for only a few hundred more than that new MIM. When you consider what a new MIM costs new, it probably loses a similar amount as percentage. What's different is the end amount. All of this just takes into consideration Standard Strat's. Things start to get really different once you head into artist, Deluxe or Custom Shop territory.

All said, if you are going to buy one and you're going to KEEP her, then you buy what FEELS right, what resonates with you personally. Resale becomes infidelity at that point.


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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:02 pm
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stagemasterplayer wrote:
I've never thought the price differece justified an extra fret and a hardshell case. BTW, why do the MIMs have one less fret? If the neck blanks come from the same stock and are finished on the same machines, why short them a fret? To make the MIAs stand out?
No they are bought as different grades. No company is ever going to sell all there neck blanks as one grade. Wood Stock like that is broken down and prices can jump big from one grade to another.
Plus I like when some say they are made on the same machines, what machine would that be? And it's more then and extra fret, the truss is different and the fretboard finishing.

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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:30 pm
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Chicagoblue wrote:



At a recent class I took at the Chicago School of Guitar Making, the owner there confided that he thought the MIM truss rods were better than the MIA. But that was a reluctant choice because he believes truss rods are evil anyway. He believes a well made neck should not move over time and that the truss rod is what causes the neck to move and thus need to be corrected by the truss rod itself. I've seen solid necks he's built with a solid unadjustable truss rod in them and they are as straight and true today as the day he made them. Adjustable truss rods are not better, it's what the buyer expects. Otherwise the perception is that solid necks are inferior. Leo installed them reluctantly to keep up with Gibson.


Every piece of wood is different so how would you engineer multiple solid necks to react to the string tension the same on all guitars without a truss rod to adjust them?

Not going to happen!!!! The truss rod is there to make those adjustments so the engineered relief can be duplicated over and over and allow too adjust to each individual players taste.
Any solid neck no truss is going to change over time and the changes can differ do too the wood grain that the neck was cut from.

Truss rods adjust the convex shape of the neck right? Well the Bi Flex truss rod of MIA's allow you to adjust the convex and the concave how could anyone say that's not better?

I would have lit that teacher up at the Chicago school of guitar making!!!!

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Post subject: Re: mexican neck vs american neck
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:36 am
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cvilleira wrote:
stratguy740 wrote:
Me and my friend got into a debut last night. He was asking me why i would spend 1000+ dollars on a guitar. (He has a mexican strat). I told him it was just about feel and he laughed. He said most things are the same. I told him the american strats have better worksmanship towards the neck/ fretboard and he laughed again. Do the american strats have more time put into the neck/fretboard?
interesting so tell me whats the same? The fret board 22 to 21 is not, the roll fret edge is not, the truss rods inside are not the same MIA's have a Bi Flex to adjust both ways. So what else is there to make them the same? That they are made of wood? I think your friend needs to learn.
And you can bet the neck blacks are suppllied in different grades, best to custom shop,then MIA,shop followed by MIM. I believe Mike confirmed that the best graded blanks are given to CS a while back which is logical.
So again what's the same?

+1

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:07 am
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I believe that one could only tell if you own both instruments from USA and Mexico. I think national pride is very bold in this topic and some are letting it cloud judgement. Much like the term "CIJ is better quality" or MIK for that matter- you will get more bang for your buck.

Truth is, people that get all knotted up hearing that build quality is better on MIA guitars need to actually play an MIM- or better still actually own one before making such an assumption. The ones I know who are saying that they prefer MIM, own both.

Here's a bold one- The neck on my Standard Strat is actually more comfortable than the deluxe. The satin feels nicer- the shape is more comfortable, and it actually looks nice. The grain on the mim is better than the deluxe- which is plain white and boring.

Just because a neck may look pretty with a flame or a curl, doesnt mean that it will be better. Id rather have a plain quarter-sawn neck with grain going through the majority of the neck before taking a curled or flamed neck that doesnt. Then again, If I was that an@l about tone, I perhaps may go for something with a set neck or a neck-thru.

The neck on a MIA is 22 frets so you can bend up the last note a full tone to complete an octave. The rosewood I believe may be of better quality- rolled edges you will get on a Deluxe, but you wouldnt know it was there if you didnt know you had it. I cant tell the difference myself, and I have put it to others in a test to tell me which is which- and most got it wrong.
The wood is the same species, but please remember folks that it is alder afterall- not honduran mahogany. Electronics- yeah the MIA wins but hey- if it wasnt good quality then I guess Fender wouldnt put their name on it wouldnt they?

Value wise- there is more value in a MIM than MIA and you cannot argue with that. Im talking $1200NZD for my Standard vs $3500NZD for my Deluxe. So what makes up the price difference... this is where the value lies. If my MIM feels better than my MIA- perhaps with better pickups then it would be a winner. Forget that 22nd fret- who uses it anyway.


There is a guy who went on a tour of both factories and took hundreds of photos. One thing that stuck out was how clean the mexican plant was, and everyone wears protective safety gear. Attention to detail was very good and very hands-on. The MIA plant to me looked like a total mess and no-one was wearing masks at all.

How about a MIM vs. CIJ debate- wouldnt that be more fair?

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:42 am
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Blertles wrote:
Im talking $1200NZD for my Standard vs $3500NZD for my Deluxe.


New Zealand prices are a bit askew you really need to compare what they retail for in USA. $450 for a MIM and $950 for a MIA and $1500 or so for a deluxe.

When you break it down I think the MIM represents value for money. The MIA has refinements and the deluxe has extras for those who want the best without going custom. Just like any other companies products something for all budgets.

You do get better quality the more you pay it is just not such a great deal in my opinion.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:05 am
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Its the grade of the neck wood that is the most critical ,not the body.When I worked in a lumber yard as a young man,lumber was graded by how clean it was,(no knots or other defects) not by how " interesting the grain was.The tighter the grain,the better the wood.This difference in wood grade might explain the fret sprout i find in many MIM necks.I have yet to find a MIA neck with fret sprout.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:36 am
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Shockwarrior wrote:
Blertles wrote:
Im talking $1200NZD for my Standard vs $3500NZD for my Deluxe.


New Zealand prices are a bit askew you really need to compare what they retail for in USA. $450 for a MIM and $950 for a MIA and $1500 or so for a deluxe.

When you break it down I think the MIM represents value for money. The MIA has refinements and the deluxe has extras for those who want the best without going custom. Just like any other companies products something for all budgets.

You do get better quality the more you pay it is just not such a great deal in my opinion.


Why only the USA- whats so special about the US prices that throw out international prices out of the question? I dont go shopping for stuff in the US, Niether do a lot of us here. Price points are different in each country whether here, Britain, USA or Australia or even Japan etc. I guess you would only care about USA prices if you lived in the USA.

More $$$ = Quality isnt entirely true. To a degree- you can only take that statement to a point. You will find that MIM quality is fairly consistent with MIA and all other origins. I just cannot see where true value lies.

I bet any of Fenders plants can pump out a strat with MIA specs and they will all be at different price points for the same specs and same quality. For people, it just has to be made in the USA because of pride. Mexico, China and Japan could match any quality that the US Plant can put out- However, that would cannibalise more expensive models in the range if they were cheap enough.

an issue here- as I have said it before... National pride is clouding judgement on this topic. Someone saying that MIM is better than MIA, Hondas better than Harley Davidsons etc... is bound to stir arguements, as people cannot stomach hearing a neighbouring nations quality is the same as their own.

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:50 am
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I've been in the market for a new strat, currently I have a 57 AVRI. I saw several strats hanging on the wall at my local GC, one in fiesta red and the other in shoreline gold, both with maple necks.
As I looked at them they both seemed to be exactly the same as my 57 AVRI, and I compared everything. Both were the 50's classic MIM, quite honestly, it was very very difficult for me to tell the difference between my 57 and the 50's classic's. And I thought why such a huge gap in price?

The ONLY difference I could find was the neck edges and fret wires were not rolled and finished as nicely as my 57. I decided to think about it and when I went back, the one I wanted (shoreline gold) was gone.

I think there is some difference between MIM vs MIA necks, but I believe it depends on the model and what you are comparing it to.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:14 pm
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I own a 2006 MIM Tele and a 2006 USA Jeff Beck Strat.
I have to admit I like them both equally and they get about the same play time but am a bit pissed that I spent that much on the Jeff Beck.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:55 pm
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Im just sayin, i used to love playing MIM, but now i cant put my MIA down. Now when i play a MIM, i cant enjoy it as much as i used to.

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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:41 pm
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Shockwarrior wrote:
When you break it down I think the MIM represents value for money.

Blertles wrote:
More $$$ = Quality isnt entirely true. To a degree- you can only take that statement to a point. You will find that MIM quality is fairly consistent with MIA and all other origins. I just cannot see where true value lies.

MIA is better quality, I didn't say better value. But you pay for any improvements.

Blertles wrote:
Why only the USA- whats so special about the US prices that throw out international prices out of the question?

It is because of the crooks that set the prices overseas. It basically is marked up twice when sold overseas. That is in addition to the shipping/importing expenses. This represents around a quarter to a third of the foreign price in some cases.

To look at the true quality verses price you need to look at the US domestic market. Where Fender and demand sets the price not some other crowd.

Blertles wrote:
an issue here- as I have said it before... National pride is clouding judgement on this topic. Someone saying that MIM is better than MIA

Anyone saying a MIM is better quality than a MIA needs their head examined or new glasses one or the other. But the MIM paid 50% less so they are winners at the time of the purchase.

As I said the MIM represents value for money. Regardless of where either is made. The name MIM and MIA represent the quality differences in the guitar itself and the fact they have one plant where they can produce guitars cheaper.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:00 pm
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Guy's, newbe here. I also own us, am &$@!. strats and tels. I am not a pro, but after 30+yrs of GAS I know this. Look realy close at an am's neck, you'l see total differences in workmanship, frets are nicer, wood is a little finer. Now here's the catch. I happen to own a few hiway-1's. O yah mia on the neck. But guess what these guitars are pieced together from parts mim, shiped to usa for final fit and finish, made in usa logo stuck on it and voila. I have spent some time looking around different stores and have seen the differences in both. Finily a year ago I found a mix 70's classic in natural finish, rosewood neck. i like my am strats. BUT I AM IN LOVE WITH MY MIM STRAT. I WILL NEVER $@!& ON MIM GUITARS AGAIN NEVER. ITS MODED. BUT IS A SWEET AXE . Mim guitars just need a little more love in the hard ware dep't.


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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:38 pm
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Shockwarrior wrote:
Shockwarrior wrote:
When you break it down I think the MIM represents value for money.

Blertles wrote:
More $$$ = Quality isnt entirely true. To a degree- you can only take that statement to a point. You will find that MIM quality is fairly consistent with MIA and all other origins. I just cannot see where true value lies.

MIA is better quality, I didn't say better value. But you pay for any improvements.

Blertles wrote:
Why only the USA- whats so special about the US prices that throw out international prices out of the question?

It is because of the crooks that set the prices overseas. It basically is marked up twice when sold overseas. That is in addition to the shipping/importing expenses. This represents around a quarter to a third of the foreign price in some cases.

To look at the true quality verses price you need to look at the US domestic market. Where Fender and demand sets the price not some other crowd.

Blertles wrote:
an issue here- as I have said it before... National pride is clouding judgement on this topic. Someone saying that MIM is better than MIA

Anyone saying a MIM is better quality than a MIA needs their head examined or new glasses one or the other. But the MIM paid 50% less so they are winners at the time of the purchase.

As I said the MIM represents value for money. Regardless of where either is made. The name MIM and MIA represent the quality differences in the guitar itself and the fact they have one plant where they can produce guitars cheaper.


True- prices are high here- and It is purely in my opinion because probably not the importer- but the retail chain that hold near monoploy on them. I try to buy from small business owners- where overheads are not so much and the service tends to be better and much more personal.

On my standard, I cannot find any appoi tment on the guitar which suggests that it is in anyway inferior. I cannot on my MIA's either.

Truth be told, I think a MIM vs CIJ debate would be interesting as that is really what they should be. They are nearly on same par- where as I guess an Fender MIA Vs G&L or Musicman or perhaps charvel would be more of a fair comparrison. Not that a subject would arise though.

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Post subject: american model strat
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:50 am
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If the american made strat so recognizeably better, Why does fender have to put the american flag sticker on it? if you have to be reminded of the difference by a sticker, you most likely cant tell the difference anyway


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