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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:20 pm
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Well this has turned into a hot topic!

Several years ago, I read an article by a luthier who said basically what was said here: That vintage guitars are not worth the money being paid for them for many of the reasons stated above and he added that the magnets in the p/u's get weaker with age. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

It seems to me when you buy a RI, Custom Shop or not, you're not getting a guitar with a vintage sound, you're getting a copy of the vintage guitar when it was new -- before the wood aged, before the pickups changed, before the tone became different.


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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:32 am
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That's a myth that a permanent magnet like the Strat or Tele PUs loose their power with time. Not due regular use of a guitar. Heat can do that, but at these temp. the guitar is long gone. Also if a magnet gets hit real hard, but the PU would be destroyed.

Vintage Strats or Teles are for sure not firewood. I own both new CS Strats and pre-CBS Strats. I love 'em both, but new a Strat will never sound like vintage Strat. Someone wrote here that Ronnie Earl leaves his vintage ones at home and the CS Strat sounds close enough to his old ones. I agree with this and I do the same thing since my old ones became to valuable. I have 3 MB Strats made by C. Fleming and they all great instruments and sound very close to my vintage ones, I couldn't be happier. But you can't build 50 years into a new guitar. If the vintage ones are worth the money they ask for today? That's for you to decide. I love the sound of my old '56 Strats, but I wouldn't pay today prices because they are out of my price range now. I played many vintage Strats in my life and my favorite period is late '55 and early '56. I haven't really played a bad one for that period. Someone posted here that he played 300 pre-CBS Strats and only one was good. I'm not sure what he was looking for. I'm not a SRV, Clapton etc. but I know what a good Strat should sound like and there are a lot of great sounding pre-CBS Strats. That's why the Strat is what it is today an icon. It's not an icon because they sounded bad back then. They did it right back in the 50s and early 60s and the quality was not bad either.
But I'm also a happy customer of the Fender Custom Shop.


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:24 am
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I saw a vintage Strat from the 60`s on Ebay selling for 75,000. Awful expensive " firewood " if you ask me.


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:26 am
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Yep. Everybody knows: the more you pay, the more it's worth.


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:29 am
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53 strat wrote:
Fire wood? probably not
53 Strat


I assume you're waiting for someone to point out that:

Very little of that guitar appears to be original, and

The Strat was introduced in 1954.


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:12 am
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Gravity Jim wrote:
53 strat wrote:
Fire wood? probably not
53 Strat


I assume you're waiting for someone to point out that:

Very little of that guitar appears to be original, and

The Strat was introduced in 1954.


Perhaps you should read some history befor you comment. Try pages 127 &132 of Richard Smiths book " Fender, the sound heard around the world"
53 Strat


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:05 am
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To some degree everyone is right . There are awesome sounding guitars from the 50's & 60's and some that are plain terrible. I remember in the 1970's Fender's reputation and quality standards were in question... but look on ebay and the prices people are willing to pay for these "vintage" guitars. Again, many top musicians play older instruments that stood out from the others made in the same period. There are terrific sounding, high quality guitars today and some duds. In this era of stiff competition in all walks of life ( not just guitar mfg. ) if you don't produce ..... someone else will !!!


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:16 pm
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I'm reminded of the story of Eric Clapton's original 'Blackie'-from what I heard, he took what he thought was best from THREE different Strats. Of course that was back in about 1970, when it wasn't a big deal to do that. That also basically makes it a mongrel Strat.

I've had a few guitars, vintage and recent, many the same model so I could compare. ALL INDIVIDUAL guitars are different, even taking into account CNC driven manufacture of todays' guitars! And if I had a formula about what makes a guitar consistently better than others of the same make and specs that I could prove and patent, I'd be rich.

But at the end of the day, it's all about personal preference. Pure and simple.


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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:03 pm
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I can't say that I've ever seen any professional-level guitar that was "firewood" -- so bad that the only thing it's good for is for burning. Even if it they weren't perfect, they could be made playable enough by a good set-up or some work around.

Sure, Fender Strats have had their quality issues from day one. Among them were many issues with the plastic from which pickguards, pickup covers, and knobs were made (cracking, rapidly wearing out, and discoloring); E strings falling off one side of the fingerboard or the other; and finishes that barely clung to the wood. Those issues don't render them completely unplayable. My "four digit serial number" strat has a low E string that isn't playable from about the 14th fret, but that sure isn't a show stopper.

Like GE Smith says in the new "Make History" video, the quality of the current guitars is probably better than it ever was. But quality sure ISN'T the reason for the high prices of the vintage models!

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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 am
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I've just finished reading Tom Wheeler's Stratocaster Chronicles. Really interesting book. Leo Fender's whole raison d'etre was to never to stand still, keep on innovating and developing and always produce the best guitars possible using the materials and manufacturing methods he had. When he sold up to CBS they proceeded to do pretty much the opposite, just making the same gear the same way and eventually making it worse by cutting back on material quality to shave profit margins. When CBS then sold up to the Fender employees they picked up where Leo had left off, and started the constant progress and innovation thing again.

What does this prove? Mostly that people are right when they say that most 70's Strats are junk, and that they're also right when they say that current Fenders are better than they've ever been. The value thing is more interesting. I think the guitars Leo made in Fullerton command a premium because of his work ethic and some rose-tinted nostalgia on the part of some people, the early CBS stuff is nearly as good and worth nearly as much, the mid-late 70's Strats are not worth anything like as much and never will be. I read a post on here a while back and the guy had written that it didn't matter whether a 40 year old guitar that retailed for $150 was now worth $3000 or more, it's still a $150 guitar. If it was my money it'd be the Custom Shop all the way.

Regards

Marge


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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:03 pm
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I've played both vintage guitars and CS re-issues; I like the newer guitars better. Heck, I had an "old" Strat once; now, I have a 1989 Am. Std that, in my opinion, outplays any Strat that I've played. Perhaps I happened on a winner out of the box, but it is a sweet playing and sounding axe!


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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:09 pm
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53 strat wrote:
Gravity Jim wrote:
53 strat wrote:
Fire wood? probably not
53 Strat


I assume you're waiting for someone to point out that:

Very little of that guitar appears to be original, and

The Strat was introduced in 1954.


Perhaps you should read some history befor you comment. Try pages 127 &132 of Richard Smiths book " Fender, the sound heard around the world"
53 Strat


nope the strat was introduced in 54'

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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:15 pm
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bluestube wrote:
53 strat wrote:
Gravity Jim wrote:
53 strat wrote:
Fire wood? probably not
53 Strat


I assume you're waiting for someone to point out that:

Very little of that guitar appears to be original, and

The Strat was introduced in 1954.


Perhaps you should read some history befor you comment. Try pages 127 &132 of Richard Smiths book " Fender, the sound heard around the world"
53 Strat


nope the strat was introduced in 54'


Yes, it was.. And there's nothing about the date 1953 on either of those pages in the hardcover 2nd printing of "Sound Heard 'Round The World." I believe that 53Strat is telling us that he believes his heavily modified stripped Stratocaster is one of Leo's very early protoytpes.


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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:23 pm
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I will asume some of you are not stupid and probably can read. Put down the bong and get Richard Smiths book "Fender, the sound heard around the world" And read about when the prototype guitars were built and see the pictures on pages 127 & 132 of that book . The guitar I have was built in 53 and photographed by Mr. Fender himself. The pictures were found in Mr. Fenders files when Richard was doing research for his book. A few of you need to read a little history before you profess to be experts in the field. The guitar is going to be featured in Vintage Guitar magazine in the next few months.
53 STRAT


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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:28 pm
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Here is a rear shot of the guitar showing the 3 spring route and the trem bar has only 3 holes for the springs
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/J ... 008F-1.jpg

53 STRAT


Last edited by 53 strat on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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