Hi again guys, i sure could use some help with this one! This is being done on my 97' USA Strat. After putting a serious study on doing action and neck relief adjustments on everything that can be adjusted, with the exception of the necks micro tilt disk, in the correct order, i.e, intonation after the other stuff, i attempted to get everything action/relief wise, set to the fender specs found in this forum. I have that accomplished, however, i ended up with slight fret buzz on all six strings high up the neck from the 12th fret up. This, in my thinking, leaves me with 3 possible adjustments to attempt one at a time, That being, the truss rod, the bridge saddles, and the micro tilt in the neck heel. Of course, i'n not even sure if any one of these adjustments will do the job without combining another one. I'm hoping to eliminate the buzz without raising the action too much out of spec. I realize that the truss rod adjustment is more for neck relief, and i believe it affects the string height between the first and last fret, measured at the eighth fret, a lot more than action height overall, but i'm not 100% sure about that. It is mentioned in the strat specs that one should experiment with the string height when adjusting the action with the bridge saddles, until the desired sound and feel are acheived, but Trying to look at all of the adjustment possibilities, sometimes combinations of those adjustments, and not knowing for sure for lack of experience, mostly about just how much changing the truss rod relief adjustment will affect the overall string height, has me totally bamboozelized, and suffering from a total meltdown of my libular labulator! This is a desperate plea to anyone who has a solid answer for this, oh so lovely, extra sweet example of a mind shredder! Many thanks to anyone who jumps in this mess! Ah geez, i just found a thread where a guy is asking how to adjust a 2 point trem, and in one of the reply posts, he's being told to adjust the action after he works on the trem. Does this mean that my trem is also a factor? Thufferin' Thuckatath!

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

Does raising the action a fraction fix this? Was it ever a problem before you started? Do you have relief (forward/concave bow)?

The best method to determine neck problems is to set the neck dead straight. A straight edge and a notched straight edge are the tools for the job.

Once you have determined the fretboard and frets are fine then you will know if shimming or micro tilting the neck is required. Its only ever required if you cannot get a good string height at the last fret.

When its dead straight you can set the action height perfectly and add some relief for less buzz towards the headstock.

Here is a pic to make it easier to visualize. All the saddles are for is to set the string length and to keep the string a certain height above the frets. Shimming or tilting the neck has no effect if you can raise or lower the saddles.



The trem is only ever a factor when its floating you have to constantly keep in tune when setting the intonation and string/action height. Because the trem goes up and down based on string/spring tension. Some people set the string height a bit higher for trem players that do big dives as less tension on the strings may cause a buzz.

Thanks Shockwarrior, yeah, raising the saddle height will easily remove the buzz, so will adding more neck relief which i already have some, set to fender specs. I'm scratching my head because i did the right things in the right order, but even though the strings are slightly higher than spec,in the end, i still have slight buzz high on the neck like i said, due to trying to get into exact spec on relief, action height, saddle height. I may be asking too much of the setup, as the action feels good enough, and it's easy to play. I think i just need more setup experience, i'm brand new to Strats, i've only worked on acoustics before this.

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

If you refer to that picture. After you set the string height on a straight neck:

Buzz on the left most frets is reduced with relaxing the truss rod (counter clockwise or away from you).

Buzz on the right most frets is corrected by raising the string height.

You cannot do more than that without checking if your fretboard or frets are uneven. That would take a straight edge (to see if the frets are even). Or a notched straight edge (to see if the fretboard or neck has warped).

Hi davemercier: to add something to this - shimming the neck with the Tilt Adjuster or by the old method will make buzz at the top of the neck worse, not better. Shimming just doesn't come into this issue - leave that Neck Tilt alone.

Amplifying what Shockwarrior has already said, the sequence is vital in doing your setup. Relief first: get it how you want it then leave it alone.

Next, action. Set all the strings to Fender specs. Then if you want your action lower bring each string down little by little, one string at a time. Each time you lower a string, test it fretted at all 21/22 frets with your normal playing style. As soon as you start to get buzz reverse the last adjustment. When you've done that for all the strings it is done. Leave it.

Finally, intonation. That always comes last because the other adjustments will throw it off.

Finished.

If after all that you find some unwanted buzz has appeared go back to the beginning and work through it again - though in practice you shouldn't need to mess with the relief any more and should only need the smallest adjustments to the action second time round.

Bear in mind that after trussrod adjustments the neck can take an hour or two to settle. So just check later on that the relief has stayed where you want it.

Not so hard.

Good luck - C

As someone new to guitars, one of the first things I wanted to do was learn how it all works so I can do my own Strat setups. I don't have much experience of course, but the principals are fairly easy to grasp.

I'm probably not qualified to give advice - so this is as much for me as it is davemercier, but if everything is set to Fender specs and there is still buzz, could it not be possible there's some uneven fret problems? I only say this because the Fender spec for string height seems fairly high already - I've setup all three of my Strats to Fender specs (2- 2009 AmStds, 1 - 2008 MIM), and there's no chance of buzz anywhere on any of them.

(With the understanding that each guitar and playing styles are different ...)

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Then again, what do I know ... I've only been playin' for 6 months ... !

Dave,

For your consideration:

I've never known (nor care to know) Fender's OEM setup specs. With them, I feel there is too much bow in the neck, the action and block are set too high and the pickups are set too low. To me, these specs are more so for a showroom environment where it minimizes fret buzz, notes cutting out and, "Stratitis" more so than having any Strat play the best it can. Even with all this, these equations are not fail safe as you are surely finding out; which segues me to, "One size does NOT fit all". Evidently, your upper fingerboard is ramping up somehow so the 'trail-off' you should be having up there is indicative of your neck needing LESS relief, especially if your action is not particularly low yet the frets as a group are buzzing, rattling or whatever you want to call it. Forget the rulers and the micrometers, etc. Eye, ear, feel and sometimes even imagination are oftentimes your best tools for getting the job done the best.

Begin by putting LESS relief in your neck and take it from there.

In situations such as these, of course there has to be a standard of OEM imposed/decreed specifications for all the obvious reasons. Yet, at the risk of sounding redundant, 'clinical' settings are most appropriate only in a clinical environment and at best, are merely starting points toward the finished product in a real, daily environment where MANY variables are present and never even thought of at the 'clinical' level.

Each and every SPECIFIC neck should be set at optimum relief for the SPECIFIC guitar body it is mated with. Further, hardware does indeed factor into this too. On the other hand, things such as the tilt neck and/or shim aspects are virtually unnecessary nowadays with the tight and consistent tolerances of today's CNC machines.

As has been stated, there is a systematic way to set up a guitar where under usual circumstances, the neck inevitably comes first in the process. Consequently, if the neck isn't superlatively right, all subsequent adjustments to the other usual components cannot and will not be right either.

To All: This is IMO, YMMV.

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Guys, all of you have been all been far more helpful than you might imagine. I really had myself locked into thinking that the fender "how to guides" specs were the only way to go, and it did seem strange, since the action was ok before i started. I just wanted to accomplish something like "optimum setup", and ended up with fret buzz that wasn't there when i started. All in all, it's turning out to be an excellent lesson in learning my way around guitar action possibilities that i just a bit ago did not even know existed. Now, with the awesome advice you all provided, i finally have a grasp of what needs to be accomplished, also exactly why, and in the correct order. I cannot thank you all enough for your kind help. It really is a privilege to have a forum like this where so many are willing to give of themselves. I really was having quite the difficult time! I surely will not hesitate to pass this knowledge along to others in need. Thank you all very much for your good advice.

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

That's the spirit, carry on!!!

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Hi again, i just gotta gush! man, shortly after doing all of the adjustments per the sage advice i have been mucho blessed with here, the whole thing went from a nerve wracking nightmare, to a very rewarding strat setup experience. I mean to say, that i am having a blast with this! I'm already at the fine tuning stage of it all, and it's a real kick dialing it all in just right. I even ventured into the much daunting,(to me anyways) arena of the dreaded tremelo setup! that turned into a kick as well! This is all quite fascinating to me, as i did not know just how much of a help it is to be able to get one's action set to where it greatly improves the guitars playability. It's pretty darn cool to know that i can set this strat up in a bunch of ways, like for slide guitar etc! Not to mention the money saved, by not having to pay a luthier for a basic setup regularly. Thanks again so very much guys, what a trip these fender guitars are!

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

I'll bet you now more than half of the self-proclaimed, "techs" at large!

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HAHAHAHAHA!! just another noob here, but i sure know a ton more than a couple of days ago! I'm pulling for you on that tele bass for valentines day!

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

In all seriousness, you are willing to ask intelligent questions, learn, ask more intelligent questions and be most concerned about getting the job done the best it can be. Those aforementioned, self-proclaimed, "techs" (aka, "hacks") think they know everything by some sort of osmosis, all because they somewhat successfully replaced a set of strap buttons with strap locks once. Believe me, there are plenty of them out there!

Thank you for pulling for me with the bass. I'm still hoping but truth be told, it isn't looking all that good.

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Hi, i hate to use this thread like a chat room, but i wanted to mention that i too, have seen self proclaimed "experts" in quite a few different lines of work. funny, how the ones that really have it on the ball are always very humble, never saying much about their expertise. Where as on the other hand, well, you know all too well.

Sorry to hear about the negative tele bass hopes status, is it your wife by chance who needs to be convinced? maybe if all of us wrote letters?

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I believe in Christianity as i believe that the sun has risen. not only because i see it, but because by it, i see everything else. C.S. Lewis

Agreed!

Actually, when it comes to musical equipment, my wife never says no to anything. Rather, she cheerfully says, "If you want it, get it." This in a way gives me with a perpetual guilt trip, believe it or not. The reason being, I'm sure there's stuff she'd like too but she never asks for anything. She is truly is a keeper!

The problem lies in pretty much everyone's situation now: Ever shrinking paychecks, ever rising bills, you know the deal. I've been trying to put away a little at a time for the bass for such a long time now, setting milestone after milestone but something always comes up to take all the money away. As a matter of fact, I've recently liquidated the majority of my equipment just to stay afloat. If you can believe it, after 43 years of playing, I'm down to one Strat and one 10W practice amp now, that's it. Surely, the days of Ward Cleaver are forever gone, never to be seen again (at least in my lifetime, any way). Yet, hope springs eternal! So, I keep my chin up and keep dreaming: "Maybe a Telecaster Bass (MIM, of course) for Valentine's Day!"

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