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Post subject: Strat neck shim
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:09 am
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Has anybody ever shimmer a strat neck at the front of the neck rather than at the back. I've run out of adjustment on the saddle height screws and I need to raise them a tad more. I thought I could shim the neck to bring the headstock up then drop the saddle height. The saddles are teatering on the very top of the screws. Please help????


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Post subject: Re: Strat neck shim
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:53 am
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therise123 wrote:
Has anybody ever shimmer a strat neck at the front of the neck rather than at the back. I've run out of adjustment on the saddle height screws and I need to raise them a tad more. I thought I could shim the neck to bring the headstock up then drop the saddle height. The saddles are teatering on the very top of the screws. Please help????


Something's not right there. Shimming the neck in either direction, front or back will elevate the height of the neck off the body and cause you to have to raise the saddles all the more. Whatever is currently going on between the neck and it's mating body fitting is quite wrong to begin with.

If you have a built in tilt neck screw, back it out; if you have any shims in between the neck and the body, remove it/them and then start over.

Note that I am operating under the premise that you are using the OEM neck AND body and haven't sanded, etc. either of the two.

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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:27 am
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I would have to agree with BigJay. It sounds like you are trying to raise the saddles to compensate for something else that is not adjusted/setup correctly.

I would start here: http://www.fender.com/support/stratocas ... _guide.php

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:31 am
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BigJay wrote:
First, what kind of guitar is it? Specific model, please.

Second, what exactly are you trying to fix? Your aim suggests that you want to raise the string height. Yes? Why? What are you trying to compensate for?

Im a bit concerned any time somebody says they need to move saddles or any adjustement beyond its natural limits. The answer is that you can shim the neck either way. But there are other adjustments that may be more appropriate than shimming the neck.

How is the truss currently set? Is it possible the neck is bowed out such that the fingerboard is flat even convex?

How is the bridge adjusted? Is it properly set relative to the body?
Its an 60s reverse headstock fsr strat mim. Basically I'm getting some fret buzz around the 12th fret and up. After playing with a very low action for about a year and putting up with fret buzz here and there I decided in my quest for more sustain to raise the action in accordance to the fender setup guide. After doing so the tone off the guitar really came alive and the whole thing really opened up BUT! Still fret buzz. I've looked and adjusted the neck relief more and less. I've tried lots off relief and still buzz and a straight neck and still buzz. What I want is to keep raising the action untill the fret buzz stops but I've runn out of adjustment on the saddles there jacked up and are at max. I've read about people shimming necks to re angle the pitch to get a lower action but mine is the oposite


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:38 am
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therise123 wrote:
BigJay wrote:
First, what kind of guitar is it? Specific model, please.

Second, what exactly are you trying to fix? Your aim suggests that you want to raise the string height. Yes? Why? What are you trying to compensate for?

Im a bit concerned any time somebody says they need to move saddles or any adjustement beyond its natural limits. The answer is that you can shim the neck either way. But there are other adjustments that may be more appropriate than shimming the neck.

How is the truss currently set? Is it possible the neck is bowed out such that the fingerboard is flat even convex?

How is the bridge adjusted? Is it properly set relative to the body?
Its an 60s reverse headstock fsr strat mim. Basically I'm getting some fret buzz around the 12th fret and up. After playing with a very low action for about a year and putting up with fret buzz here and there I decided in my quest for more sustain to raise the action in accordance to the fender setup guide. After doing so the tone off the guitar really came alive and the whole thing really opened up BUT! Still fret buzz. I've looked and adjusted the neck relief more and less. I've tried lots off relief and still buzz and a straight neck and still buzz. What I want is to keep raising the action untill the fret buzz stops but I've runn out of adjustment on the saddles there jacked up and are at max. I've read about people shimming necks to re angle the pitch to get a lower action but mine is the oposite


Sounds to me like an actual fret issue. Is there a fret that is higher than the others? Worn frets? It is possible that you need a fret dressing.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:11 am
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BigJay wrote:
therise123 wrote:
BigJay wrote:
First, what kind of guitar is it? Specific model, please.

Second, what exactly are you trying to fix? Your aim suggests that you want to raise the string height. Yes? Why? What are you trying to compensate for?

Im a bit concerned any time somebody says they need to move saddles or any adjustement beyond its natural limits. The answer is that you can shim the neck either way. But there are other adjustments that may be more appropriate than shimming the neck.

How is the truss currently set? Is it possible the neck is bowed out such that the fingerboard is flat even convex?

How is the bridge adjusted? Is it properly set relative to the body?
Its an 60s reverse headstock fsr strat mim. Basically I'm getting some fret buzz around the 12th fret and up. After playing with a very low action for about a year and putting up with fret buzz here and there I decided in my quest for more sustain to raise the action in accordance to the fender setup guide. After doing so the tone off the guitar really came alive and the whole thing really opened up BUT! Still fret buzz. I've looked and adjusted the neck relief more and less. I've tried lots off relief and still buzz and a straight neck and still buzz. What I want is to keep raising the action untill the fret buzz stops but I've runn out of adjustment on the saddles there jacked up and are at max. I've read about people shimming necks to re angle the pitch to get a lower action but mine is the oposite


The buzz could stem from many different things. I recommend you stop focusing on the string height and start looking for something else. You should set the guitar back to Fender specs and start over. Seriously.

If I had to guess, I examine those frets at 12 and above. Make sure they polished like a fine mirror. ANY little nicks or scratches could cause an annoying buzz. Its amazing how an apparently tiny fret flaw causes a buzz. Some people use a cloth buffing wheel on a Dremel tool to buff the frets a little. Others use a very lightly abrasive cloth and finishing polish. It doesnt take much unless there is a big flaw. Be sure not to use too strong an abbrasive or you could flatten the frets or scratch them further. Slow and gentle for a nice rounded glassy finish.

Then check the channel where the strings hit the saddles. That grove should be mirror polished too. Its metal on metal, right? String on saddle? There might be corrosion in there. A very smart Brittish guy named Nikininja suggests dental floss as a polish for the nut-slots and I suspect it might work for saddle groves also. My guess is its the frets, but you never know.

Once the guitar is set up properly and you are confident the frets and saddles are polished well, check for buzz. If yes, you might take it too a tech for a more rigorous fret-dress or diagnosis.

But it could be other things that might be obvious or not. Make sure all the screws are tight, including the pickguard. Check the wires and tremolo system. Make sure all the screws are tight on the bridge and block. Bridge/block/trem screws are often overlooked.

Personally, I doubt its something like a loose fret, but you never know. That's what the professionals can tell you if your efforts fall short.
thats great thanks . i thought it could be a fret problem but i didnt expect to be having to bother with them on a year old guitar but i do play it constantly. so fret polishing is something ya can do at home? i thought it was a tech job?


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:17 am
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BigJay wrote:
therise123 wrote:
BigJay wrote:
First, what kind of guitar is it? Specific model, please.

Second, what exactly are you trying to fix? Your aim suggests that you want to raise the string height. Yes? Why? What are you trying to compensate for?

Im a bit concerned any time somebody says they need to move saddles or any adjustement beyond its natural limits. The answer is that you can shim the neck either way. But there are other adjustments that may be more appropriate than shimming the neck.

How is the truss currently set? Is it possible the neck is bowed out such that the fingerboard is flat even convex?

How is the bridge adjusted? Is it properly set relative to the body?
Its an 60s reverse headstock fsr strat mim. Basically I'm getting some fret buzz around the 12th fret and up. After playing with a very low action for about a year and putting up with fret buzz here and there I decided in my quest for more sustain to raise the action in accordance to the fender setup guide. After doing so the tone off the guitar really came alive and the whole thing really opened up BUT! Still fret buzz. I've looked and adjusted the neck relief more and less. I've tried lots off relief and still buzz and a straight neck and still buzz. What I want is to keep raising the action untill the fret buzz stops but I've runn out of adjustment on the saddles there jacked up and are at max. I've read about people shimming necks to re angle the pitch to get a lower action but mine is the oposite


The buzz could stem from many different things. I recommend you stop focusing on the string height and start looking for something else. You should set the guitar back to Fender specs and start over. Seriously.

If I had to guess, I examine those frets at 12 and above. Make sure they polished like a fine mirror. ANY little nicks or scratches could cause an annoying buzz. Its amazing how an apparently tiny fret flaw causes a buzz. Some people use a cloth buffing wheel on a Dremel tool to buff the frets a little. Others use a very lightly abrasive cloth and finishing polish. It doesnt take much unless there is a big flaw. Be sure not to use too strong an abbrasive or you could flatten the frets or scratch them further. Slow and gentle for a nice rounded glassy finish.

Then check the channel where the strings hit the saddles. That grove should be mirror polished too. Its metal on metal, right? String on saddle? There might be corrosion in there. A very smart Brittish guy named Nikininja suggests dental floss as a polish for the nut-slots and I suspect it might work for saddle groves also. My guess is its the frets, but you never know.

Once the guitar is set up properly and you are confident the frets and saddles are polished well, check for buzz. If yes, you might take it too a tech for a more rigorous fret-dress or diagnosis.

But it could be other things that might be obvious or not. Make sure all the screws are tight, including the pickguard. Check the wires and tremolo system. Make sure all the screws are tight on the bridge and block. Bridge/block/trem screws are often overlooked.

Personally, I doubt its something like a loose fret, but you never know. That's what the professionals can tell you if your efforts fall short.
can ya tell me a good way to measure neck relief everybody seems to have a different measurement?


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:33 am
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You might be getting too far ahead of yourself.

What you need to do first is evaluate the neck and see if its completely straight.
Not doing this will mean any measurement or adjustment afterwards is correcting an unknown problem and thats not going to help.

You need to have the truss rod set to have the neck straight and then use a straight edge and a notched straight edge to see if there are an immediate problems with the fretboard level and the frets level.

Then use a smaller edge and visual inspection down the neck and look for high and low frets. Narrowing them down and comparing them to their neighbors.

If you do observe you have a twist/warp, hump or a risen tounge. Then the best way to correct this is to have a luthier/repairer do the job.

Then if its not a raised or uneven fret then you should have a perfect neck.
Only then you worry about if the set angle is correct.

Neck you restring properly and then see how low you can get the action.
Add some neck relief if required and finally adjust the bridge and saddles for compensation/intonation.

Note: The nut is going to make a difference but the nut is only used when an open string is played. If you should have a problem playing open strings this is a good indicator. When your setting up string height you should play down the entire guitar not just open strings.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:40 am
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Let me understand this you are getting fret buzz in the flat part of the neck? Heel 7 to 9 frets up?

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:45 am
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therise123 wrote:
can ya tell me a good way to measure neck relief everybody seems to have a different measurement?


Without a specialized tool or straight edge the only way to easily see if you have some relief (forward or concave bow) two ways are:

Look straight down the neck towards the pickups from the head stock.
Observe either side of the neck, see the bottom edges of the frets do they all line up? is the neck straight? are the sides uneven?

Or

Hold down the a string at the first fret (easier to capo it because of this next step) then hold down that same string at the last fret. Then in the middle of the fretboard between the two bounce the string. If you can fit anything more than a business card under it or no gap (possible backbow) you might need to adjust the truss rod.

So in other words by holding the string at either end you are making an improvised straight edge.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:52 am
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cvilleira wrote:
Let me understand this you are getting fret buzz in the flat part of the neck? Heel 7 to 9 frets up?
No it's fret 11 and up to 21


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:58 am
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therise123 wrote:
cvilleira wrote:
Let me understand this you are getting fret buzz in the flat part of the neck? Heel 7 to 9 frets up?
No it's fret 11 and up to 21
And more on the g string to be fair


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