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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:59 am
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Blertles wrote:
nikininja wrote:
guitslinger wrote:
I have a 69 Bassman that sounds sweet with my Strat through a Marshall 4-12 cab,the 2-15 Fender cab doesn't cut it with a guitar but really thumps with a bass.Years ago Tom Scholtz of Boston marketed a device called the Power Soak that even allowed a speaker to sound overdriven at livingroom volumes as evidenced on Boston's first album.


Yeah thats exactly what the powerbreak is. A speaker attenuator. It lowers the power from the output section to the speaker, so your amp is still running on full volume. The volume/power is dissipated by the attenuator as heat.
The volume box that sits in the effects loop is a very different thing. It acts as a master volume control, which most amps these days already have.


Is it like the Ernie Ball volume pedal? essentially like a 500k volume?


Yeah that volume box you see on ebay is just a volume pedal without any switches or a rocker pedal. Its best application would be to use it on something like a old marshall SLP that doesnt have a gain control but had been modded to have a effects loop. (Who would mod one with an effects loop but no gain control, i dont know.) Plugging it into the effects loop would essentialy turn the amps volume control into a gain control. You dont get the pushed powersection sound out of them.
The power attenuator as I said lets you run the amp on full tilt and loses the volume as heat through the attenuator. So your pushing everything but only a fraction of the volume is coming out of the speaker. The rest of it is heating the room.

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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:23 am
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firstrat wrote:
I have a mesa 50/50 that has the low power switch. I used a clean channel and cranked the power amp. The power amp became my distortion. I could only handle it for a few seconds on full power. And at low power, which it supposed to take it to 15 watts per side, it was still making my ears ring after a few seconds. Those few seconds were great, especially on full power :shock: Does anyone know how mesa cuts the power with that switch? is it the same idea as a power soak built in to the amp?


I'd expect a built in attenuator to switch the valve orientation from pentode to triode. A basic explanation-
Torres wrote:
A switch to lower the power of a two power tube, or four power tube amp by switching the power tubes into a different mode - called triode. Lowers power by about 40%. Has a softer tone also. Often confused with Class A.

Not heat dissipation based. Non the less a very usable aspect on a amp that as stated offers good tonal variations.

Heres a good read by a mate of mine a little on pentode/triode and class structure of power sections. A very suprising read. BTW Peavey tried to nick his designs on powerclass switching.
http://www.sheldonamps.com/amptalk/myths.php

His amps are absolute winners. When I can afford one I wont look at another amp that I can think of. Sadly friendship doesn't extend far enough to enable me to afford one. Still one day eh? They would particularly suit your tastes Firstrat. As they give the typical cascading gain drive by the bucketload, and the ability to move into more traditional 70's marshall drive.
Something I think you've picked up on with your power section switching/drive is the way amps move from class A to class B. If you hit that magical point inbetween you get a very usable crunch thats far better than either classA or classB. Brian May pretty much lives in that territory for his solo's. Its a very linear smooth gain and responsive to guitar volume/pick attack. Without the negative sides of either class structure.

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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:47 am
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nikininja wrote:
Jobe it doesnt allow you to push the power section of the amp. It turns a regular amp into a master volume amp. Their a great tool for amps without master volumes.


Actually, that's exactly what it does. It allows the power section to push the tubes to full crunch, but controls the master levels so you can achieve full tonal crunch without having to max out your channel volume in order to get that sound. But, I am a total novice at this stuff, it seems to work for me! Tonal saturation is met without blowing my windows out (although, when girlfriend isn't around, I try).


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Post subject: powerbrake
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:08 am
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he nik,
im really curious about this power brake,
my bassman has 4 inputs, zero line out.
do you place the power brake infront of the amp?
or between the head and cabinet?

it doesnt make sense to me to have it in front of the amp. but, i dont really have a clue how it works.


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:06 am
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jobe6970 wrote:
nikininja wrote:
Jobe it doesnt allow you to push the power section of the amp. It turns a regular amp into a master volume amp. Their a great tool for amps without master volumes.


Actually, that's exactly what it does. It allows the power section to push the tubes to full crunch, but controls the master levels so you can achieve full tonal crunch without having to max out your channel volume in order to get that sound. But, I am a total novice at this stuff, it seems to work for me! Tonal saturation is met without blowing my windows out (although, when girlfriend isn't around, I try).


Jobe trust me mate its not a attenuator and doesnt cause the amp to respond as such. The only ways to lower perceived output whilst maxing the amp are to dissipate the power through heat or to change the orientation of the valves. Thats why an attenuator sits inbetween the amp and the speaker. The volume box is nothing more than a add on volume control. Thats why it costs £20 as opposed to £200. It works for you and thats whats important. Whatever you use to cause maximum enjoyment from your playing experience, is a good thing. What it does is lower the output of the preamp section so effectively you can never push the power section. You can do the same by putting a graphic eq in the effects loop and lowering everything. Thats what I used to do a few years back when trying to use a marshall stack for home practice.

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Post subject: Re: powerbrake
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:15 am
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bluesstrattone wrote:
he nik,
im really curious about this power brake,
my bassman has 4 inputs, zero line out.
do you place the power brake infront of the amp?
or between the head and cabinet?

it doesnt make sense to me to have it in front of the amp. but, i dont really have a clue how it works.


You put the cable from the speaker out into the attenuator input then the cable from the attenuator output to the speaker cab.

Theres a wide selection of attenuators to choose from. The marshalls are the most common in the UK. If I were in the US I'd be after a Weber one. They seem the most versatile and apparently have a superior way of getting rid of excess power. The THD ones seem quite common, I cant for the life of me see why. You have to buy a very specific hotplate to suit amp spec's. You cant use the same THD hotplate for a Marshall stack that you'd use for say a Fender DR.

Be warned you never get exactly the same sound as a fully pushed amp. The reason being speakers react differently when they have a load of watts going through them. Its nothing that cant be eq'd out, but your not going to sound like Hendrix pushing maxed out plexi's into speakers barely able to cope.

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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:50 pm
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nikininja wrote:
jobe6970 wrote:
nikininja wrote:
Jobe it doesnt allow you to push the power section of the amp. It turns a regular amp into a master volume amp. Their a great tool for amps without master volumes.


Actually, that's exactly what it does. It allows the power section to push the tubes to full crunch, but controls the master levels so you can achieve full tonal crunch without having to max out your channel volume in order to get that sound. But, I am a total novice at this stuff, it seems to work for me! Tonal saturation is met without blowing my windows out (although, when girlfriend isn't around, I try).


Jobe trust me mate its not a attenuator and doesnt cause the amp to respond as such. The only ways to lower perceived output whilst maxing the amp are to dissipate the power through heat or to change the orientation of the valves. Thats why an attenuator sits inbetween the amp and the speaker. The volume box is nothing more than a add on volume control. Thats why it costs £20 as opposed to £200. It works for you and thats whats important. Whatever you use to cause maximum enjoyment from your playing experience, is a good thing. What it does is lower the output of the preamp section so effectively you can never push the power section. You can do the same by putting a graphic eq in the effects loop and lowering everything. Thats what I used to do a few years back when trying to use a marshall stack for home practice.


Nikininja, I have no doubt you know exactly what you're talking about (based on your adivce to others) and I am truly an ametuer. But, since my Hot Rod Deluxe's tone is so closely tied to the volume, i though I was making the short cut by maxing out both channels, and using the Omnitronics master volume to control total volume and tonal output. Could you tell me where my naivetee lies? Is there something else I could do to achieve that SRV sound without buying the Original tube screamer?


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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:40 pm
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Jobe your not naive at all. The fact is whatever gets you where your going is ok. I cant comment on SRV tone at all, I wont listen to him, I've never been able to enjoy his stuff, consequently I know nothing about it. Theres a school of thought that says you or any one else wouldnt sound like SRV with his own personal rig.

What I would suggest you do is find a sound your happy with and forget about everything else to so with your gear. Dont let anyone tell you what your doing is wrong. Your playing will benefit/improve the most when your content with your sound. We all worry far too much about emulating someone else. I cant think of one notable player who sounds like someone else. Sure you can hear bits of freddy king from clapton (example) but only bits. Take the bits of a style you like and the bits of someone elses too. Amalgamate them together and get your own. Myself I try to bend like clapton and have vibrato like kerry king from slayer.

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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:53 pm
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Ninja, thanks, broseph. Sage advice. jb


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