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Post subject: What's that strat ?
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:04 am
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Hi

I just bought a 1993 three tone sunburst, 62' reissue, from a French seller, that bought this guitar from guitar village, on ebay US (this info is confirmed, no problem).

Great looking guitar, but there is a some problematic details on it ...

First, take a look at the guitar there :

Image

Nice ? But big problem, all the finish is ... poly laquer !!! I tested this with acetone, and some other dissolvant product, with no reaction !

Everything else seems ok, serial :

Image

Here are pictures of the neck & neck pocket :

Image

Image

Date is 8 june 1993 on both the neck and the body !

Problem there too, the decal on the head seems strange, with a vintage look, not like the reissue.
Take a look at it :

Image

Image

And look there :

Image

And you will see that mine is like an original strat, not a reissue.

Here is the inside :

Image


The neck is a stange profile, not C not U, and the frets are larger and rounder than usual reissue ones.

And as you can see, the lacquer is tinted, unlike the usual fender technique, where neck are tinted BEFORE be laquered.

Can you tell me what guitar is that ?

You can find some other pictures there :

Index of /photos/MatosMusique/Strat62

And more details there :

http://f.defaut.free.fr/photos/MatosMus ... 2/details/

And if you need more, I can do more !
I've no problem with the seller, as he offered to get the guitar back, but the US seller (guitar garage), says that the guitar is authentic ...

I dont know what to think about that, it's a very strange case ...

Best regards, and a lot of sun from greece :)
-fx


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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:35 am
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Welcome!

It is legitimate.

Over the years, Fender's American Vintage Reissue production models have various yet subtle 'anomalies' where none are truly exact duplications of what they are supposed to be of. Two examples from first hand experience which immediately come to mind: I had a 1983, American 62 RI with an extreme 'V' neck and the double dots at the 12th fret close together like on CBS Strats.

Enjoy!!

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:51 am
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Thats all fine. I see nothing to cause any concern on that guitar, except the 1ply scratchplate.

The decal looks fine. The only difference i can see between the 2 reference decals is a slight angle in the fender stratocaster line that is in the original and not the reissue. The outer colouring of the decal is fine, thats more a age thing than by design.

The lacquer has been cellulose or urethane over the years. The neck tint has always been in the lacquer on reissues, hasnt it?

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Last edited by nikininja on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:08 am
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nikininja wrote:
The lacquer has been cellulose or urethane over the years. The neck tint has always been in the lacquer on reissues, hasnt it?


That's my understanding. I've never heard of Fender tinting the wood rather than the lacquer on necks. After all, they are trying to reproduce the look of aged lacquer, not aged wood.

Perhaps we're getting slightly mixed up there with the amber tint that goes on the body before finishing?

Regarding the decal: on this one certain things do appear to match the "original" rather than the "reissue" in the illustration from the provide.net webpage. For example, the pointy rather than curved terminal end to the crossbar on the F. And the same at the tips of the Es. But there ya go - what of it? I rather strongly doubt it is an original decal, so clearly Fender were making good reproduction ones in the early '90s.

Also, regarding the lacquer: what makes you think it is polyester rather than polyurethane? Both have been used on Reissue models: to this day only the American Reissue series has nitro on the bodies, and I don't think that goes back so far.

Ultimately, as Martian says, the small details of RIs have changed over the years. Even those in the catalog right now vary from one another. I wouldn't sweat it - I'd get on with playing it instead.

BTW: if that neck is neither a C or a U, perhaps you'd describe it as a D? Sounds nice...

Good luck with it: make that guitar happy in sunny Greece!

Cheers - C


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:37 am
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Hi

So, finish is poly, I tested it with acetone, and a guitar maker tested it with
dissolvant, he told me finish is poly, not nitro.
And no, fender never used poly finish on reissue !

Decal is a false one, you can see on my 57 from the same era :

http://f.defaut.free.fr/photos/MatosMus ... GP0885.JPG

It's different, obviously it's a decal supposed to be like an original 62 strat, not a reissue ! I gave you a link to see the diferences, the top bar of the E from FENDER is pointed instead of rounded, same for the middle bar of F.
Fender never used these pointed logo anymore since the golden age !

Plus frets are diferents, larger and rounder. So maybe it's a real neck, but refinished, with a new decal, re fretted, I think that's too much to be true !

The body is 100% poly finish too, the pickups and electronics seems to come from a mex modele if you take care (pot bushing, cap, ...)

Any other idea ?
BEst regards
-fx


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:41 am
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fxdfxd wrote:
And no, fender never used poly finish on reissue !

Hello again fxdfxd: here is a page full of reissues with polyester finishes:

http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0131002357

Once more, Fender have used polyester, polyurethane and nitrocellulose on Reissues at different times. There is nothing wrong with your finish.

fxdfxd wrote:
...It's different, obviously it's a decal supposed to be like an original 62 strat, not a reissue ! ...etc etc

You are setting too much store by this. You appear to be worried that the finish is not the same as a real 1960s Strat - but that the decal is. As has aleady been said by Martian, Fender have changed many details about their Reissue models over the years. You can't draw hard conclusions from that.

Maybe the neck has been refretted and maybe it hasn't. We can't possibly say which across the internet. However the fret size is not a clue. Look at all the different Reissues in the current catalog: you will find different fret sizes on them. Perhaps someone here knows definitively what fret wire Fender were using in 1993 on Reissues - but I doubt it.

One of your photos makes it look as if the decal is on top of the lacquer. I don't know if that is so, but if it is it would be period correct. That is how they did decals back at that time. The decals on current American Reissues are done that way. It does not mean that someone has put on a fake decal.

This guitar is not as mysterious as you want to believe.

And while no doubt it is a nice one it has no special value or collectability. So if you like it, play it. If not, get rid of it.

But don't let the shape of the end of logo E inform that decision. That would be to miss the point.

Enjoy your Strat - C


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:46 am
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fxdfxd wrote:
Hi

So, finish is poly, I tested it with acetone, and a guitar maker tested it with
dissolvant, he told me finish is poly, not nitro.
And no, fender never used poly finish on reissue !

Decal is a false one, you can see on my 57 from the same era :

http://f.defaut.free.fr/photos/MatosMus ... GP0885.JPG

It's different, obviously it's a decal supposed to be like an original 62 strat, not a reissue ! I gave you a link to see the diferences, the top bar of the E from FENDER is pointed instead of rounded, same for the middle bar of F.
Fender never used these pointed logo anymore since the golden age !

Plus frets are diferents, larger and rounder. So maybe it's a real neck, but refinished, with a new decal, re fretted, I think that's too much to be true !

The body is 100% poly finish too, the pickups and electronics seems to come from a mex modele if you take care (pot bushing, cap, ...)

Any other idea ?
BEst regards
-fx


OEM, the neck on mine was quite dark too.

Apparently, you've got your mind made up on these fringe issues so our further input is pointless. Like Ceri said, either keep it or get rid of it.

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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:03 am
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Which kind of poly finish is it? Polyester or Polyurethane? The fact that fender usa had to stop using nitrocellulose because of pollution laws. Then spent millions on a air filteration system, just so they could go back to spraying nitrocellulose, obviously has no impact on this discussion.

Its a fake. I'll give you £200 for it.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:19 am
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Hi

no offense, but fender never used polyurethane finish on the reissue line.
I've a 57 from 91 that is nitro, had another from 95 that was nitro.
Try to find me a reissue with poly finish over the whole internet, and I'll reconsider my tought.

I'm sure it's a fake, everything on it sounds fake, but I just try to identify the parts.

Thanks anyway for your help :D
-fx


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:23 am
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Sorry Ceri I missed your post.
The guitar you show are classic series, that means kind of reissues made in mexico, relatively news
Me I'm talking about an american vintage 62 reissue strat, from 1993. that's different.
I've a 57 from 91, had one from 1995, the decals are always the same, you'll never find the wrong type of decal on ANY reissue, and I checked many dozen before posting here ;)

Thanks for your help :D
-fx


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:35 am
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So how on earth did fender spray cellulose when the spraying of cellulose was illegal in america in the 90's?

Did they knowingly break the law?


Perhaps you ought consider that your not the know it all you think you are and that 2 people on this thread with way more knowledge than you have given you the same answer I did. Thats 3 against 1.

Heres a urethane 93. Its clearly urethane from the shine and lack of wear on a 16 year old guitar. Cellulose would be dropping off a well used instrument after 16years.
Image

Found on this site.
http://www.stratcollector.com/inventoryACTIVE/V047628-car.html

Another
Image
Look at the shine on that!
from here
http://www.stratcollector.com/inventoryACTIVE/V067742-teal.html

Just to be absolutely clear and give a good refrence point. Heres my cellulose finished hotrod next to my urethane finished customshop guitar.
Image

Note the flash glare from the urethane coated customshop guitar. Its just the same as the 2, 93RI's I found and nothing like the matte finish of cellulose.

So tell me what kind of poly is it on a 93 VRI strat. Urethane or ester?

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Last edited by nikininja on Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:36 am
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fxdfxd wrote:
Sorry Ceri I missed your post.
The guitar you show are classic series, that means kind of reissues made in mexico, relatively news
Me I'm talking about an american vintage 62 reissue strat, from 1993. that's different.
I've a 57 from 91, had one from 1995, the decals are always the same, you'll never find the wrong type of decal on ANY reissue, and I checked many dozen before posting here ;)

Thanks for your help :D
-fx


Decals have changed. That's one of the reasons Fender asks for a picture of the decal when you request replacements. So they can find the closest match.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:37 am
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lmao....this is the best post i have read in a lone time....makes me think of Lonely Boy....(in Reverse)


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:56 am
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Hi

Thanks for the info, but I saw many older guitar in that finish with nitro lacker.
And if you don't know, these shiny colors usually comes with thin skin nitro !

But please find some very good guitars there :

http://fenderreissue.com/sites/default/ ... G_4006.JPG

http://fenderreissue.com/sites/default/ ... 0_1333.JPG

Or some others from the well know joetheguitarman :

http://www.joetheguitarman.com/3%2024%2 ... strat2.jpg


All comes with poly finish.
i'm pretty sur that the story about nitro & law was between the fullerton and corona ages, so maybe between 85/89, not exactly sure !

Oh and YZFJOE, decals are the same since the first corona reissue ever produced, you can check ALL the corona reissues you'll ever cross ;)
I think that the change was between fullerton and corona, or maybe at the end of the fullerton era.

Thanks
-fx


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:21 am
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There is a large body of real world knowledge on here from a lot of people with a lot of experience. Don't be so quick to discount what they have to say. Remember, you are the one that came here seeking help.


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