And the new "Slapchop" title goes to....

BTW I agree about noisegates, horrible things. I'd rather have noise and use inordinate amounts of gain.

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No no and no

??? Please excuse me but I have no idea what "slapchop" means in the context of the forum.

I'm running Axe-FX Ultras which have really nice gates in. One gate is at the very front the signal chain so it only looks at the pure, unaffected guitar signal. It also has gates that can be placed any where in the signal chain and receive their key from any where in the signal chain.

In other words, I use high-quality, flexible gates but they're still gates. All they do is fix a problem which goes against a general philosophy I have which is that it's better to avoid a problem than to fix it. By using hum-canceling SC, I avoid the problem (of 60 Hz hum) so I don't have to solve it.

Matt dont worry its not a derogatory statement. Slapchop was a very factually correct user that enjoyed correcting any inaccuracies by anyone in a most forthright manner. Some didn't like him I rated the guy though.

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No no and no

No worries. I didn't take it as an insult. I just feel that it's important to be clear when one is stating facts vs. their opinion.

Matt,

You obviously disagree with my opinions as do others, and that is fine. I just offered my feelings on the matter, and that is based on over 25 years of playing and experimenting. In my experience peopl tend to over do things, as with anything too much of anything is a bad thing. But a little bit can be good. If your gate is intrusive to your playing, my thought is you are using too much something somewhere. Maybe too much gain....seriously, but I can crank my gain and still get more sustain than I will ever need before my gate intrudes and cuts the note. Hey I used to be a crank everything to 10 guy too, I just learned over the years to tweak for optimal results. This crank to 10 mentality is why were are now going backwards to the most basic amp setups. Musicians just want to plug and play, so the best amp to them is the one that sounds good when they crank everything up. If I played gig's, I would also prefer this. But as a basement warrior, its not important

Also, you mentioned that different rigs and factors can come into play for certain things I mentioned (very true), but I am basing them on playing the same rig so all things are equal. You say you like dynamics, but I don't get the dynamics from a HB that I get from a SC. You don't like gates, and I use them for SC and HB's under high gain, have for years and never thought they were a bad thing. My amps will sustain as long as anyones, I have played many amps and for me, nothing has beat what I currently play through. It was a costly rig though, but its my own personal rig customized and modified to my personal sounds.

But believe me, I still love my HB equiped guitars, but I will never expect them to do what a HB equipped guitar

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst

Actually, I don't crank up anything to 10 in my rig (an Axe-FX modeler/FX processor through FRFR speakers). I don't use any more gain than I need to. The same goes for gating. The fact is that when there is 60 Hz hum in the signal path, a more aggressive gate is needed because there is more noise in the signal. I feel this is not an opinion but a fact. Now whether or not that is tolerable to the Players is subjective so opinions will vary.

Firstrat

Yours is an opinion I have valued for a longtime. The fact that your tastes dont always coincide with everyone elses is nothing to worry about. As you well know.

The reason I like singlecoils for metal and highly driven stuff is the sheer amount of attack. I cant get that attack from any bucker. I dont like noise gates, I never will. I've tried loads (ISP and Rocktron included) and never found one that lets your guitar react fully. By their nature their designed to interfere with a straight signal and cut it off when it drops below a certain user set level. The noise gate built into my 2203KK seems pretty fast. It also seems to release really quickly too on lower settings. I still dont like it, I've been trying to suss some way of ditching the gate and keep the midboost.

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No no and no

I found these guys while doing some research on the subject at hand. Anyone ever heard this album?

Actually, I was born and raised on Staten Island and lived there all my life until I moved to Jersey about 5 or so years ago. Even here, I'm only 20 minutes or so away from SI still. And of course, my musical 'sphere of influence' still remains in NY to a large degree.

Well, I know that Clapton's tech is more involved with Clapton's pickups then Clapton is. Clapton informs his tech as to exactly what he wants his guitar to sound like, irrespective of the pickups. Obviously, it's said tech's job to accomplish this, no ifs, ands or buts and to this end, there's obviously lots of console EQing involved. Beck by comparison appears to be more hands-on about his sound and hasn't radically changed it again and again and again over the years. IMO though, I would think that his good friend, Seymour Duncan has a hand in the design and construction of the pickups in his personal guitars regardless of what they are supposed to be by contractual obligation because let's face it, whose #1 choice of stacks would be the Hot Noiseless?

As to the whole wang bar issue (and I don't want to go off on a whole diatribe about this), Custom Shop model guitars find there niche for virtual duplications of one specific instrument or for one player's exact specs. Either way, they aren't "reality" guitars in the sense that they do not typify what the general populace regardless of playing status use, used or had or have available to them. So, with this postulation, it follows that the CS wang bar systems are yet some unknown variation on a production model and as the old expression goes, "for better or for worse" they are what they are.

Speaking for myself about wang bar use, I pretty much use it the way Beck USED to; always did. But of late, I think he's getting a bit carried away with it. As I am so used to the now called, "Vintage" system for my stylings and am familiar with it and its quirks, I know what I can and cannot do with it and how far I can push it until I have to retune. In Beck's [now] case, you can see he has the block floating really high so it is more in play at all times than it isn't. Evidentally, his guitars would be tuned with the presumption of chronic usage whereas most other players tune their guitar with the presumption of sporadic usage. It's like that video that was posted here a while ago where the guy who would beat the piss out of the wang bar and the guitar would come right back in tune until he bent a string; the same principle.

FWIW, to me, Floyds are the, "Betamax" of wang bar systems. Meaning, a great idea which came out too soon without all the 'bugs' worked out. My gut of guts says look to Ibanez for eventual perfection.

YMMV.

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You dig?

I agree, but when I go to ultra high gain, I just prefer the HB equiped guitar anyway. But for clean to mid gain, I really dig the SC's, and I don't have to gate that much at all. I also like the SC's for lead work with high gain. Actually, I found in the mid gain vintage type gain, there is some middle ground where all guitars, while having their own character, sound good. A little noise does not bother me. My rig with the most noise is also one of my better sounding rigs, a gate is an absolute neccessity in high gain though. But I use an ADA mp-2 all analog tube preamp and its high gain is my favorite on the planet.

My opinion is this, you cannot beat a all analog tube signal path through the preamp section of your rig. Modelers, digital and solid state is not going to ever get there in my life time. They have been trying to match tube breakup and tone with alternatives since the 70's and here we are in 2009 and they are no closer to the real dynamics, warmth and compression of a all analog tube signal. Now after that signal, digital and solid state can be very useful. You are much better off dealing with the downside/side effects of something than trying to find something that does it all, because there will always be trade offs.

If you want authentic SC tone through a tube amp, forget about getting it with a HB guitar in a modeler. Get a tube amp or better yet tube preamp, and a real SC equipped guitar. If you are the type that says well close is good enough, then go ahead with your HB guitar and modeler. But for me, I have had the altenatives and the real deal, and once you had the real deal, its very hard to go back.

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst

A very unscientific opinion, but to me, as long as it's not overpowering, a little bit of hum and hiss is like the sound of your gear talking to you.

(No, I have not been drinking!)

Likewise nikininja. I alway read what you and Ceri have to say. I like single coils for high gain stuff, and as I tweak my set up more, I am finding some great things with them. In particular, I like the lead tones. I think for high gain heavy palm muting rythms, that a bucker is still delivers the chunky low end better. But keep in mind, that I often play without other instruments, so I don't have a bass player and maybe I over compensate to get back some fullness. It probably not as important with a full supporting cast around you in a band. Besides all that bass gets real muddy and woofy when you turn up loud. But its awesome down low where the bass stays tight and articulate.

The one thing I feel that a lot of people miss, is that to find a great practice tone is a totally different approach then finding a great gigging tone. To me, you have to be able to use more tools with a practice or direct recording tone. Things like a compressor, a ultra high gain preamp, and gate used correctly help for practice tones, and can ruin you tone at a gig volume, where the power tubes and speakers can get you the distortion sustain and react with each other more favorable overall. Yes its hard to beat the soud of a cranked tube amp, but you cannot get that to happen at practice levels, even with a small 5 watt tube amp imho. To me that is the wrong direction for getting a good tone at low volume. A small power tube tube (EL84 or whatever) is going to sound closer to a 12ax7 than a 6l6 or EL34 when driven, and small speakers do not put out the chunk and move air of a 12" speaker. And still, its too loud

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Guitars:
1. mid 70's Ventura MIJ Gibson l6-s clone (Pre-lawsuit) in Black with Rosewood FB and EMG 81 BR/ 85 Neck
2. ESP KH2 Neck Thru
3. 2008 Am Std Strat in 3 tone sunburst

Actually it has been done - by Fractal Audio - with the Axe-FX. It is the only modeler that was good enough for me to say goodbye to tubes for ever. All it took was someone with the knowledge, experience and persistence to sit down and make it work. I should also mention that at $1500-$2000 it's the most expensive modeler every made but people are buying them and selling their tube amps. This is the first "boutique" modeler ever. Everything else before was child's play.

The Axe-FX is the only modeler I have ever played or owned (and I've owned a few) that faithfully recreates the responsiveness, dynamics and tone of a real live tube amp. After I played through one I sold all my MP-1s, my ADA Microcabs, ADA Ampulators, and the rest of the rack gear. The Axe-FX is nothing like any other modeler out there. I was highly skeptical about it until I played if for myself but the proof was in the pudding. I have never been happier with my rig than now and it's been 6 months since I made the switch.

I got my first electric shortly after I graduated High School and left home to strike out on my own. It was around '83 and there was like a drought of Fender guitars in Hawaii and what there was was going for some really ridiculous prices compared to other brands. I bought a Yamaha T-300 which was their answer to an SSS Strat. I bought a 75 Watt Yamaha amp. I don't think I had a choice between tubes or solid state. I had a few amps and they were all tube amps.

Granted, the SC pups exhibits 60 cycle hum but not under all conditions. Aftermarket pickup manufacturers will poo poo the SC pups for their noise in their add for "Stacked Humbucking Pickups" then poo poo the HB pups for not being able to achieve that true Vintage Tone. It's just business as usual for them. Hendrix, Jeff Beck, and SRV did just fine with the 60 cycle hum because they knew how to manage their sonics. Sure there is hum, but not in the 2 and 4 pos. In pos 1, 3 and 5, tweaking the volume knob is essential. The ergonomic location of the volume knob takes care of the humming problem.

Here's the thing that Humbucking pickup adds neglect to tell us. If the gain or brightness of an amp is too hot, even humbuckers hum.

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"If I don't see you no more in this world I'll meet you on the next one and don't be late... don't be late." -Jimi Hendrix

If you want to use single coils there is no way to eliminate hum. Maxwell's equations make it clear that is impossible. The best that can be done is to minimize it. The more shielding the better. Most electric guitars could be shielded better.

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James Burton Upgrade Telecaster
Hot Rodded Am Fat Strat Texas Special (now featuring Kinman Traditional II pickups)
Fender Blues Jr.
SWR California Blonde
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